Protestant view of mediatorial forgiveness

[Erick_Ybarra]

This is a spot where we must be careful. The letter you refer to does not contain the whole story, only Paul’s response. What is unknown is what information Paul has that he is basing this response on. This he received “orally” and is not recorded.

We do know that there were a number of problems in the Church at Corinth…But again, we are reading only Paul’s responses, not the detailed information upon which Paul was basing his instructions.

Peace
James

I understand this.

However, Paul says in 1 Corinthians 5 that he is judging the man based on his “deed” (singular) and this is a sexual intercourse relationship with his step-mother.

In the protestant church I came from, if you were involved with sexual immorality, it was pretty quick that you’d be disfellowshipped if it didn’t stop immediately.

 

[JRKH]

Yes your point is well taken. If the case cannot be made by Catholics on a biblical basis they claim its based upon tradition. Some would say that is riding two horses.

If you found a bible and read it on a stranded island would one know anything about Catholicism?? Or would you take the bible as its word.

Actually, If I take the Bible at it’s word, I find Catholicism.
Scripture points to the Catholic Church just as the Catholic Church points to Scripture…

Some people might say it is riding two horses…I say it is hitching the two horses together to work in tandem…

Peace
James

 

[Connor12]

Actually, If I take the Bible at it’s word, I find Catholicism.
Scripture points to the Catholic Church just as the Catholic Church points to Scripture…

Some people might say it is riding two horses…I say it is hitching the two horses together to work in tandem…

Peace
James

Hardly.

Catholicism is about the last thing one would find if reliance on scripture only.
John 3:16

 

[Porknpie]

Hardly.
Catholicism is about the last thing one would find if reliance on scripture only.
John 3:16

Connor, do you want to talk about Christ establishing his church on earth or what one must do to be saved? Your comment doesn’t match your scripture quote.

 

[Porknpie]

What about 2 thes 3 where Paul says to have nothing to do with people who refuse to obey the apostolic voice? That means to dissassociate ourselves from sinners to the glory of God.

I understand this is counter-cultural, but it is there in the scripture.

This describes all of protestantism. Should we not be talking to you?

 

[JonNC]

Originally Posted by JRKH
Actually, If I take the Bible at it’s word,** I find Catholicism**.
Scripture points to the Catholic Church just as the Catholic Church points to Scripture…

Hardly.
Catholicism is about the last thing one would find if reliance on scripture only.
John 3:16

In all honesty, I take umbrage with the words of your post, Conner.
Of all the people here at CAF, I have found few who are kinder, more charitable than James. And if we are known by our fruits, there is no doubt that James has found the Gospel in the Catholic Church. To say that Catholicism is about the last thing one might find in scripture not only contradicts the truth of his words, but also the historic fact of the Christian faith.

Jon

 

[Connor12]

In all honesty, I take umbrage with the words of your post, Conner.
Of all the people here at CAF, I have found few who are kinder, more charitable than James. And if we are known by our fruits, there is no doubt that James has found the Gospel in the Catholic Church. To say that Catholicism is about the last thing one might find in scripture not only contradicts the truth of his words, but also the historic fact of the Christian faith.

Jon

James provided an opinion and I provided mine. The bible in and of itself is a direct contradiction to Catholicism. From being saved, purgatory and worship of Mary.

 

[JRKH]

Hardly.

Catholicism is about the last thing one would find if reliance on scripture only.
John 3:16

Gee - I hate to disappoint…But it is quite true in my case…The more I looked at Scripture, the more of the Catholic Church I found…The Catholic Church is the most biblical Church around…

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

James provided an opinion and I provided mine. The bible in and of itself is a direct contradiction to Catholicism. From being saved, purgatory and worship of Mary.

In this very succinct post you have amply demonstrated that you know very little about the Catholic faith.

For that reason I say that it is wonderful that you have come to CAF for here you will be able to learn what the Church truly teaches. So - listen up my friend

1. The Catholic Church believes and teaches that we are saved by faith, by the Sacrifice of Christ, and that our salvation is a gift from God, not something that we earn.
2. Purgatory - or purgation - is a doctrine soundly based on Scripture.
3. Catholics do not worship Mary…never have…never will.

I don’t have time right now to provide the details or links explaining the above…I’m sure others will help me out on this…
Of course we don’t want to derail Erick’s thread, so if you feel the need to discuss these in depth, they should each be their own thread, for clarity’s sake. But the good folks here would be happy to take the time to explain each and every one.

As for the Bible contradicting Catholicism…As I have already said…Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact in my experience it is protestantism that the Bible contradicts…

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

In all honesty, I take umbrage with the words of your post, Conner.
Of all the people here at CAF, I have found few who are kinder, more charitable than James. And if we are known by our fruits, there is no doubt that James has found the Gospel in the Catholic Church. To say that Catholicism is about the last thing one might find in scripture not only contradicts the truth of his words, but also the historic fact of the Christian faith.

Jon

Jon,
I am humbled by your kind words. Thank you. And may I say that the same can be equally applied to yourself.

It appears that our new friend Connor has come to us with some very common misconceptions about the Catholic Church.
Hopefully we will be able to gently correct these.

Peace
James

 

[JonNC]

=JRKH;9835697]Jon,
I am humbled by your kind words. Thank you. And may I say that the same can be equally applied to yourself.

Thank you, James. I meant every word.

It appears that our new friend Connor has come to us with some very common misconceptions about the Catholic Church.
Hopefully we will be able to gently correct these.

Sadly, it will have to happen without his participation. ISTM that we will make no progress toward unity without mutual respect. Conner said, “Catholicism is about** the last thing** one would find if reliance on scripture only.” This is what I took umbrage to.
The Church, the Gospel, is in the Catholic Church. The evidence is overwhelming. I don’t have to agree with everything she teaches to see that clearly.

Peace
James

And also with you, my friend.
Jon

 

[Porknpie]

Hardly.
Catholicism is about the last thing one would find if reliance on scripture only.
John 3:16

Connor -

You have a strange way of “Considering Catholicism” as your religion type states. Suggest that you visit scripturecatholic.com and look at the scriptural basis for the Catholic church, Mary and Purgatory among other topics. This website also quotes the Early Church Fathers, those church leaders that came along in the first through seventh centuries. They were closest in time to Jesus and were the first receivers of Jesus command to his disciples to go out and preach to all nations. Do their writings reflect your beliefs? If not, you have to ask yourself why not? Options include: a) Jesus taught his disciples poorly b) the disciples subsequently forgot what Jesus said or c) your beliefs are in error.

 

[JRKH]

Sadly, it will have to happen without his participation. ISTM that we will make no progress toward unity without mutual respect. Conner said, “Catholicism is about** the last thing** one would find if reliance on scripture only.” This is what I took umbrage to.
The Church, the Gospel, is in the Catholic Church. The evidence is overwhelming. I don’t have to agree with everything she teaches to see that clearly.

Jon

I am very saddened to see that Connor has been banned. I sometimes think that the mods are a bit quick on the trigger there…but there are probably factors involved that I do not know about…

I agree with you about mutual respect, but i believe that sometimes we need to meet people where they are and try to gently draw them along. If, after an extended discussion no progress is made, then we have no choice but to drop the matter…to shake the dust from our sandals. But it does concern me when a person is banned so quickly. but like I said before…there may be factors that I know nothing about.

Anyway…I agree that we need mutual respect…and certainly the Catholic Church is to be found in Scripture…unfortunately someone else will have to enlighten Connor to that fact.

Peace
James

 

[JonNC]

This is a spot where we must be careful. The letter you refer to does not contain the whole story, only Paul’s response. What is unknown is what information Paul has that he is basing this response on. This he received “orally” and is not recorded.

We do know that there were a number of problems in the Church at Corinth…But again, we are reading only Paul’s responses, not the detailed information upon which Paul was basing his instructions.

Peace
James

James,
Its curious how often I’ve noticed that discussions like this end up being responded to rather quickly in the lectionary. Our Epistle lesson today is James 5. verses 19-20 says:
My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, 20let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

Clearly, we must balance the two thoughts. Being too quick in turning away people who “wander” may put us in the position of not being able to bring them back.

Just my thoughts on the issue,
Jon