Protestants and Angels

[Techno2000]

angelfire.com/ca3/rafaelmarie/ThePieta/zdchaptlet.html

 

[Kitty_Chan]

But, (and I did understand you are not a “bible only”) for those that are, shouldn’t their automatic and visceral reaction be that this being is from Satan? The whole platform for many protestants rests on being able to go directly to Christ, to hear the HS directly and without error, etc. So if any being sets him/her/itself up as a mediator, their reaction should be the same as they think Catholics should have regarding saints, the Church, and the Blessed Mother.
OTOH, if the BVM has appeared,as at Fatima, to call the world to repentance, why can they not look upon that apparition as they would an angelic appartion? It is only possible because God must will it, and that it is done through no power that the angel or BVM has alone.

Hmm well I think I or anyone can go directly to Christ, not sure what you mean without error. If you mean I hear something and just go with it cause God told me then Im wrong, And any honest protestant will tell you that. (Although I cant speak for specific denominations I may not be aware of their ideas)

But If I were to hear a word from the Lord, Im gonna test it, check it out with the Pastor, family, friends, prayer partners, read whatever to make sure thats what I heard. Obviously some things dont need verification example (you were mean to her were you not)

ALL and Mrs Abbott both said it that one had prayed to God and the answer was a angel, so they wouldnt be a mediator as you say. And If I saw a vision that was not associated with a prayer request Id be checking it out. Jesus said test all things. And to a ex atheist, Im a pretty good skeptic. Just now in the right areas.

I think that people like to stick to “whats in the bible” because while you may “miss” on something you wont get confused by something false as well. Myself, after looking for various things and after realising Jesus was “real” finding my beliefs in “all things” had no substance, I tend to be really hard to impress, because I dont want to follow “things” anymore.

And Jesus said when they tell you Oh Hes in the field, or over there, dont believe it and that sits well with me. Does that help? But having said that Im going to try hard not to tie Gods hands and realise that some people need to hear the message in different ways.

If someone hears Mary say at Fatima, to call the world to repentance, as you say, then if its not contridicting scripture or what Jesus taught then fine. Especially if it is Gods Word going out as it never goes out empty. And some great, christian, not christian, mean, happy people have said Gods word. We are all so different, He has to reach us in our thick little skulls somehow.

Ive been to church in a biker bar in Strugis, which many would not think possible, but it is. I guess I make a arguement that God finds us everywhere through any source, in fact I think Hes rather clever about how He reaches us.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Just as a note the book I mentioned earlier by Billy Graham Angels Gods Secret Agents does cover all of what you mention. So while you may have not run into people who know, there are those that do. Mr Graham even quotes John Calvin about Angels.

He does mention the reason he wrote the book is because of the interest in occult and little information on Angels. He felt Angels were lumped in with fairy tales and fables. And wanted to show people what they were about.

So I guess you could call it catching up, dont know, I figure thats all the more reason to be open to talking to one another to simply learn, because there is alot to know.

Hi Kitty, no Quarrel with your statement I agreee, I only want to state The Catholic Saints and Authors prior to Calvin, Billy Graham already taught about angels and the topics you mentioned by Billy Graham before he or Calvin were born. Im happy to learn from you that Billy Graham follows the Catholic Authors on the 9 choirs of Angels. My Question is where would the protestant church fathers get their research on angels? Less 7 books from the King James Version.

I stand humbled.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Hi Kitty, no Quarrel with your statement I agreee, I only want to state The Catholic Saints and Authors prior to Calvin, Billy Graham already taught about angels and the topics you mentioned by Billy Graham before he or Calvin were born. Im happy to learn from you that Billy Graham follows the Catholic Authors on the 9 choirs of Angels. My Question is where would the protestant church fathers get their research on angels? Less 7 books from the King James Version.

I stand humbled.

He didnt include source material list. He wrote it first in 75 then redid it later, so there is 2 introductions. He did list names who worked with him, if your interested I could type them for you? He does of course have scripture for things.

You have me curious now, who he sourced other than scripture, I cant see him being “afraid” to look at Catholic sources. And like I said he talks alot of how everyone is interested in things of the devil and not much is written about Angels. I really dont think he is being mean towards Catholics, I think he would be referring to popular media as hes mentioning the Exorcist movie and Charles Manson. Then in the second intro for the update, hes mentioning the obsession with Angels in New Age. Which is scary enough.

Now, I didnt count 9, I will have to look back to be sure but there seemed that many btw is there a particular book or one “of the better” ones from a Catholic author? I think that would be interesting.

Plus Im wondering if anyone whos Catholic has read something (fiction) like Angelwalk or This Present Darkness and what they thought??

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

He didnt include source material list. He wrote it first in 75 then redid it later, so there is 2 introductions. He did list names who worked with him, if your interested I could type them for you? He does of course have scripture for things.

You have me curious now, who he sourced other than scripture, I cant see him being “afraid” to look at Catholic sources. And like I said he talks alot of how everyone is interested in things of the devil and not much is written about Angels. I really dont think he is being mean towards Catholics, I think he would be referring to popular media as hes mentioning the Exorcist movie and Charles Manson. Then in the second intro for the update, hes mentioning the obsession with Angels in New Age. Which is scary enough.

Now, I didnt count 9, I will have to look back to be sure but there seemed that many btw is there a particular book or one “of the better” ones from a Catholic author? I think that would be interesting.

Plus Im wondering if anyone whos Catholic has read something (fiction) like Angelwalk or This Present Darkness and what they thought??

Hey Kitty Chan just got back to your post, A book That I would recommend for starters is The Angels by Fr.Pascal P.Parente, He gives the Catholic teaching on the Angels.
For a deep historical read, Get a St. Jeromes bible commentary, he will take into some deep Hebrew angel believe systems that are out of this world, with references to follow up on…AS others have suggested St. Thomas Aquinas on Angels I lent that one out I cant remember the name of the book.

Peace and love in Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Hey Thanks, I will try to pick up those, unfortunetely winters coming but it does allow for reading.

and btw Graham does mention 10 and cites Colossians 1:16 and Romans 8:38 for it.

He does midly suggest it may be debatable since it is angels, but the list in Colossians does refer to them.

(Then he looks at four) Archangel, you Gabriel, Seraphim, Cherubim. So dont know if that gives you a idea. if your interested.

 

[Sunflower15]

I have to say that I sincerely love angelic beings and find them fascinating. I used to read mostly every book, religious or secular, I could find about them…though, I’m a little more careful now to avoid confusion because some secular sources confuse even dead humans with angels…humans are humans, angels are angels…different natures.

Aquinas, the Catholic Angelic Doctor, wrote much about them. He said for example, that angelic beings know instantaneously, without reasoning like humans do. Their knowledge occurs at once. Ours comes by progressing from point A to point B, and so forth; by reasoning. Aquinas also believed that each angelic being was of a different species…unique! How creative is God! So many masterpieces!

One of my favorite angelic stories is the one in the Book of Tobit. What a beautiful love story! And, at the end, St. Raphael Archangel reveals his identity:

“I can now tell you that when you, Tobit, and Sarah prayed, it was I who presented and read the record of your prayer before the Glory of the Lord;…I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who enter and serve before the Glory of the Lord.” [Book of Tobit, New American Bible]

I have three sons, and for their Confirmation names, they chose: Michael, Gabriel and Raphael…as their patrons saints. Maybe the love for angels is hereditary

Whenever my sons are sick or suffer a sports injury I always pray to God to send Raphael [the Healer] to monitor the treatment and healing.
From the time my sons were able to understand me, I taught them that if ever they felt frightened, to pray to God to send Michael, [the Warrior] to protect them, as he is the one who battles with “enemy forces”
I also explained that whenever they needed help understanding something [especially the Will of God in some matter or their vocations] to pray to God to send Gabriel, as he “sheds” light and gives courage in those instances.

I always pray to God, requesting the help of the angelic beings, because they serve Him, according to His Will. They don’t serve humans, unless it is the Will of God, and then they do it in service of God. We are fellow creatures. I just wished we could be more in contact, as it apparently was in biblical times.

Peace be with all,