Protestants are "enemies of Christ" and we should "shun them"

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I assume that you are still learning about Catholicism and this episode could be confusing to you, so I’ll try to give an explanation which goes beneath the surface. What you have encountered with that post is actually the result of changes in the Catholic Church since the 1960’s, and the way these changes are sometimes argued, particularly on the internet. Please be patient while I explain it.

First of all, you should be aware of the Catholic Church’s overall response to non-Catholic Christians. In summary:
  • We affirm that the Catholic Church, under Peter (ie. the Pope), is the one true Church of Christ
  • We believe that the historical separations should not have happened, but that there was often fault on both sides
  • We regard all who are baptised in Christ as fellow Christians, and we value all that we have in common, and we respect the Truth and elements of salvation found outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church.
  • We do not hold those Christians who are not in full communion as responsible for historic differences.
  • We believe that it is the responsibility of all Christians, Catholic and others, to seek unity.
These points largely arose out of the Second Vatican Council of the 1960’s, and are accepted by most Catholics.

See the Decree on Ecumenism.

The teachings of the council were not different from what had previously been taught, but there was certainly a new emphasis, ie. an emphasis on respect and what we have in common.

However, there are a number of extreme “Traditionalists” (who must be distinguished from other traditionalists) who believed that these statements of ecumenism were new, and are a departure from the historic faith. Some of these left the Church, and others remained in the Church, but disgruntled. They published their arguments, citing previous Church documents to support their point of view. These arguments are now all over the web.

So, you will occassionally meet Catholics who are strongly anti-ecumenical. You will encounter them in real life and in forums. Some of them belong to schismatic communions who reject Vatican II, but most don’t. They have their “proof texts” from historic documents, just as some anti-Catholics have their “proof texts” from the bible. They treat the ecumenism of Vatican II and in the Church since then as suspicious, or even heretical.

That is how an obscure letter from the Pope to Swiss Catholics in 1875 can appear as an argument against worshipping with Protestants in a CAF thread in 2012. It is very unlikely that the poster found the document himself, or even read it. He would have just found the useful extract (“proof text”) in an extreme Traditionalist web site. (eg. this one).
Thank you for clarifying that. I’ve always wondered what Vatican II was. I’ve heard of it several times but never really knew what it was about. Also, I don’t think I’ve ever met an anti-Protestant before that icident, though I have met several anti-Catholics.

I look forward to researching more about the Catholic Church.

-God Bless 🙂
 
And I’ll post that verse in context, again:

“If another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back. But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses. If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won’t accept the church’s decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector.” Matthew 18:15-17

Also, they don’t believe that the Roman Catholic Church is the true Church. If they did, they would join it.
Precisely. Thus the verse applies.
 
This is a continuation from the off-topic discussion in this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=636931&page=4

Someone posted this quote by pope Pius IX in an attempt to give me a reason as to why Catholics shouldn’t go to Protestant services:

“We think it is Our duty to repeat this public declaration now and to request you to preserve the unity of faith among your faithful by every possible means in accordance with your eminent zeal and your renowned virtue. For you have given notable examples of this virtue in bearing tribulations for the cause of God. You should remind them to beware of these treacherous enemies of the flock of Christ and their poisoned foods. They should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings. They should shun their writings and all contact with them. They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any jurisdiction. They should avoid them as strangers and thieves who come only to steal, slay, and destroy. For the Church’s children should consider the proper action to preserve the most precious treasure of faith, without which it is impossible to please God, as well as action calculated to achieve the goal of faith, that is the salvation of their souls, by following the straight road of justice.”
ewtn.com/library/encyc/p9graves.htm

I think that is absurd. Discuss.
The Catholic Church was engaged in a more or less “siege mentality” since the Reformation, With Trent she solidified her doctrines and stood behind those fortified walls. It was probably the best recourse for the times. Now she’s grown IMO, and no longer needs to adopt such a stance; “love casts out fear” as scripture tells us. The Church faces this world with more love, confidence, and understanding than ever before, IMO.
 
The Catholic Church was engaged in a more or less “siege mentality” since the Reformation, With Trent she solidified her doctrines and stood behind those fortified walls. It was probably the best recourse for the times. Now she’s grown IMO, and no longer needs to adopt such a stance; “love casts out fear” as scripture tells us. The Church faces this world with more love, confidence, and understanding than ever before, IMO.
There is a difference between charity and just opening yourself up to others. I think this is why some traditionalists oppose ecumenism. I believe they just have a wrong idea of what is actually going on, but they do have the right point that we shouldn’t be giving up who we are and turn a blind eye on the mistakes of the denominations. We do approach and say, “yes, we are 90% the same in theology,” but then we should always follow up with “lets work on the 10% shall we?” While its a good idea to approach with the things we have in common, the idea is that its a starting place, not the be-all, end-all of the relationship. Shunning doesn’t mean complete disregard and avoidance. Hey, Christ did tell us to pay our taxes as well, so we don’t completely avoid the tax collectors. But we must be wary of them that we don’t turn into them and if contact with them is not beneficial to our soul, then we should avoid it.
 
There is a difference between charity and just opening yourself up to others. I think this is why some traditionalists oppose ecumenism. I believe they just have a wrong idea of what is actually going on, but they do have the right point that we shouldn’t be giving up who we are and turn a blind eye on the mistakes of the denominations. We do approach and say, “yes, we are 90% the same in theology,” but then we should always follow up with “lets work on the 10% shall we?” While its a good idea to approach with the things we have in common, the idea is that its a starting place, not the be-all, end-all of the relationship. Shunning doesn’t mean complete disregard and avoidance. Hey, Christ did tell us to pay our taxes as well, so we don’t completely avoid the tax collectors. But we must be wary of them that we don’t turn into them and if contact with them is not beneficial to our soul, then we should avoid it.
I agree-that’s what I meant by “confidence”. I believe the Church really has grown in her capacity to love while at the same time certain of her unique role as the one Church Jesus established for the salvation of man.
 
This is a continuation from the off-topic discussion in this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=636931&page=4

Someone posted this quote by pope Pius IX in an attempt to give me a reason as to why Catholics shouldn’t go to Protestant services:

“We think it is Our duty to repeat this public declaration now and to request you to preserve the unity of faith among your faithful by every possible means in accordance with your eminent zeal and your renowned virtue. For you have given notable examples of this virtue in bearing tribulations for the cause of God. You should remind them to beware of these treacherous enemies of the flock of Christ and their poisoned foods. They should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings. They should shun their writings and all contact with them. They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any jurisdiction. They should avoid them as strangers and thieves who come only to steal, slay, and destroy. For the Church’s children should consider the proper action to preserve the most precious treasure of faith, without which it is impossible to please God, as well as action calculated to achieve the goal of faith, that is the salvation of their souls, by following the straight road of justice.”
ewtn.com/library/encyc/p9graves.htm

I think that is absurd. Discuss.
Is this even talking about Protestants? I’m confused. :rolleyes:

Anna
 
Is this even talking about Protestants? I’m confused. :rolleyes:

Anna
Oops. My bad. I posted the above question before reading the 2nd page of posts. I must be tired. :yawn:
+In all charity and peace . . .

The subject quote in the original post is from an article that has nothing whatsoever to do with “protestants” per se . . . rather it deals with a particular heretical CATHOLIC group who separated themselves from the Catholic church . . . who are entitled “Old Catholics” and who embraced heretical doctrines . . . they are schismatic/divisive disenting Catholics **not in union with Rome **. . . they are **“pretend” **Catholics . . . not protestants . . . for more information re this heretical “Catholic” sect I posted the link below the following Wikipedia quote . . .

:compcoff: ewtn.com/library/encyc/p9graves.htm

OLD CATHOLIC CHURCH

The term **Old Catholic Church **is commonly used to describe a number of Ultrajectine Christian churches that originated with groups that split from the Roman Catholic Church over certain doctrines, most importantly that of Papal Infallibility.

These churches are not in communion with the Holy See of Rome, but their Union of Utrecht of Old Catholic Churches is in full communion with the Anglican Communion[1] and a member of the World Council of Churches.[2] The formation of the Old Catholic communion of Germans, Austrians and Swiss began in 1870 at a public meeting held in Nuremberg under the leadership of A. Döllinger. Four years later episcopal succession was established with the ordination of an Old Catholic German bishop by a prelate of the Church of Utrecht. In line with the “Declaration of Utrecht” of 1889, they accept the first seven ecumenical councils and doctrine formulated before 1054, but reject communion with the pope and a number of other Roman Catholic doctrines and practices. The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church notes that since 1925 they have recognized Anglican ordinations, that they have full communion with the Church of England since 1932 and have taken part in the ordination of Anglican bishops.[3]

The term “Old Catholic” was first used in 1853 to describe the members of the See of Utrecht who did not recognise any claimed “infallible” papal authority. Later Catholics who disagreed with the doctrine of Papal Infallibility as made official by the First Vatican Council (1870) had no bishop and so joined with Utrecht to form the Union of Utrecht.

Contents
1 Beliefs
2 History
2.1 Independent bishopric
2.2 Three periods of development
2.2.1 Post Reformation Netherlands: first period
2.2.2 Impact of the First Vatican Council: second period
2.2.3 United States: third period
2.3 Polish National Catholic Church
2.3.1 Conference of North American Old Catholic Bishops
3 Ecumenism
4 Apostolic succession
5 Liturgy
6 Roman Catholic views
7 See also
7.1 Churches
7.2 Movements
7.3 Persons
8 References
9 External links
9.1 Union of Utrecht
9.2 Union of Utrecht dependent churches
9.3 Other links
10 Bibliography
- Wikipedia

:compcoff: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Catholics


. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Sweet Spirit of Truth+​
As you said, this isn’t about Protestants.

Another source: cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=178

**Old Catholics

Issue: Who are the Old Catholics?**

“. . . . .A surprisingly large number of German priests and laymen rejected the First Vatican Council’s solemn teaching on the papacy. In September 1870, nearly 1,400 Germans who called themselves Old Catholics signed a declaration that renounced the conciliar teaching.”. . . . .

Peace,
Anna
 
Is this even talking about Protestants? I’m confused. :rolleyes:

Anna
It is possible. But it could also be talking about dissident groups of Catholics who don’t want to obey what has been handed down through the Magisterium, Sacred Tradition, and the written Word. Just like Adam and Eve in the garden they think they know better than God what should or should not be done. In so behaving this way they are laying waste the Church that Jesus founded and endangering the souls of countless multitudes. After all Judas was a part of the Church!🤷
 
It is possible. But it could also be talking about dissident groups of Catholics who don’t want to obey what has been handed down through the Magisterium, Sacred Tradition, and the written Word. Just like Adam and Eve in the garden they think they know better than God what should or should not be done. In so behaving this way they are laying waste the Church that Jesus founded and endangering the souls of countless multitudes. After all Judas was a part of the Church!🤷
LegoGE1947,

It’s not talking about Protestants at all. Did you read the link?

Peace,
Anna
 
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