Protestants , Can you prove the Catholic Church is full of man made traditions?

[HolyRosario]

Whenever you hear about the Catholic Church you automatically think " Saint Worship , full of traditions etc."
Are Catholic Triditions biblical? Yes!

Let’s start with the saints ,

Can saints pray for us?
• Rom 15:30
• Ephesians 6:18
• 1Thess 5:25

Do Angels Pray For People On Earth?

• Zechariah 1:12
• 2Peter 1:15

Are Saints Too Far To Hear Us?
• Luke 15:10

Are The Angels With Us?
•Ex 23:20-23

Why Do Catholics Honor Mary?
She Was Chosen To Give Birth To Our Savior.
• Luke 1:43
• Matt 1:23
• Galatians 4:4-5

Even angels honored Mary
• Luke 1:28-30

Also , when Jesus was on the cross he has said " See Thy Mother "

Mary Also Says in the bible she shall be called blessed
• Luke 1:48
Now , Protestants might say " Thease are all man made traditions "
What does Jesus say about Apostolic tradition?
• 1 Cor 11-2
Protestants also believe in faith alone

• James 2:14-26
• Ephesians 2:8-10

And Finally , Protestants also say we worship statues , which is barring false witness because we don’t worship statues as pegan religions do. We honor them and they symbolize somebody in memory of them just like you would have a picture of a dead friend or family member.

Are Statues ment to be honored?

Ex 25:18
Num 21:8

Is Purgatory In The Bible?

• 2 Maccabees 12:39-46
• Rev 21: 27
• Matt 5:25-26
• Matt 12:32
• Matt 5:48
• 1 Cor 3:10 -16
In 1Peter 3:18-20 to 4:6 Jesus preached to the sinners in prison.

 

[Dkrep]

Bravo! Although it seems no one wishes to joust…

 

[Heuchler]

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Well, to be accurate, there are plenty of man-made traditions in the Catholic Church. Votive candles, religious habits, ways of making the sign of the cross, the pipe organ, favorite hymns, most if not all of the liturgical calendar, the list could go on and on. Most Protestant churches have a great many traditions too, some of them in common with Catholics, even if they don’t feel comfortable using the word (though many, including many or most of those from an Anglican or Wesleyan heritage, do feel comfortable with the word).

The real question is, do we proclaim merely human traditions to be divinely revealed doctrine, and do we let human traditions nullify divine revelation? Of course I believe we do not. On the other hand I think the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is exactly one such human tradition falsely held up as revealed doctrine and nullifying aspects of divine revelation.

 

[liturgyluver]

Whenever you hear about the Catholic Church you automatically think " Saint Worship , full of traditions etc."
Are Catholic Triditions biblical? Yes!

Let’s start with the saints ,

Can saints pray for us?
• Rom 15:30
• Ephesians 6:18
• 1Thess 5:25

Do Angels Pray For People On Earth?

• Zechariah 1:12
• 2Peter 1:15

Are Saints Too Far To Hear Us?
• Luke 15:10

Are The Angels With Us?
•Ex 23:20-23

Why Do Catholics Honor Mary?
She Was Chosen To Give Birth To Our Savior.
• Luke 1:43
• Matt 1:23
• Galatians 4:4-5

Even angels honored Mary
• Luke 1:28-30

Also , when Jesus was on the cross he has said " See Thy Mother "

Mary Also Says in the bible she shall be called blessed
• Luke 1:48
Now , Protestants might say " Thease are all man made traditions "
What does Jesus say about Apostolic tradition?
• 1 Cor 11-2
Protestants also believe in faith alone

• James 2:14-26
• Ephesians 2:8-10

And Finally , Protestants also say we worship statues , which is barring false witness because we don’t worship statues as pegan religions do. We honor them and they symbolize somebody in memory of them just like you would have a picture of a dead friend or family member.

Are Statues ment to be honored?

Ex 25:18
Num 21:8

Is Purgatory In The Bible?

• 2 Maccabees 12:39-46
• Rev 21: 27
• Matt 5:25-26
• Matt 12:32
• Matt 5:48
• 1 Cor 3:10 -16
In 1Peter 3:18-20 to 4:6 Jesus preached to the sinners in prison.

To be honest I don’t think this list idenitifies the main differences between Catholics and Protestants. Most of the mainstream denominations use a balances of scripture, reason and tradition in their formularies, though the balance of eavh of these will differ between them. And Anglicans certainly pray through the Saints and the Virgin Mary, and honour them at the appropriate times in the liturgical year…

 

[wmscott]

In my opinion I feel that there a many Protestants, not all, that confuse manmade tradition to Sacred Tradition.

 

[steve_b]

Whenever you hear about the Catholic Church you automatically think " Saint Worship , full of traditions etc."
Are Catholic Triditions biblical? Yes!

Let’s start with the saints ,

Can saints pray for us?
• Rom 15:30
• Ephesians 6:18
• 1Thess 5:25

Do Angels Pray For People On Earth?

• Zechariah 1:12
• 2Peter 1:15

Are Saints Too Far To Hear Us?
• Luke 15:10

Are The Angels With Us?
•Ex 23:20-23

Why Do Catholics Honor Mary?
She Was Chosen To Give Birth To Our Savior.
• Luke 1:43
• Matt 1:23
• Galatians 4:4-5

Even angels honored Mary
• Luke 1:28-30

Also , when Jesus was on the cross he has said " See Thy Mother "

Mary Also Says in the bible she shall be called blessed
• Luke 1:48
Now , Protestants might say " Thease are all man made traditions "
What does Jesus say about Apostolic tradition?
• 1 Cor 11-2
Protestants also believe in faith alone

• James 2:14-26
• Ephesians 2:8-10

And Finally , Protestants also say we worship statues , which is barring false witness because we don’t worship statues as pegan religions do. We honor them and they symbolize somebody in memory of them just like you would have a picture of a dead friend or family member.

Are Statues ment to be honored?

Ex 25:18
Num 21:8

Is Purgatory In The Bible?

• 2 Maccabees 12:39-46
• Rev 21: 27
• Matt 5:25-26
• Matt 12:32
• Matt 5:48
• 1 Cor 3:10 -16
In 1Peter 3:18-20 to 4:6 Jesus preached to the sinners in prison.

Protestantism IS a 100% man made tradition by definition. EVERYONE of them. We know the names of each dissident man or woman who started each one of them, and the date they started. In the beginning, they ALL divided from the Catholic Church. I’ve always wondered how they get around the following passages from Paul as he addresses the Church of Rome and those who divide.

Rom 1:

7 To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people:

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. 8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. 9 God, whom I serve in my spirit in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you 10 in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by God’s will the way may be opened for me to come to you. 11 I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong— 12 that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other’s faith. 13

Rom 16:
17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 19 Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I rejoice because of you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil. 20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.

 

[JonNC]

=HolyRosario;8486081]Whenever you hear about the Catholic Church you automatically think " Saint Worship , full of traditions etc."
Are Catholic Triditions biblical? Yes!

I would say that, for the most part, I agree, though not entirely.

Let’s start with the saints ,

Can saints pray for us?
• Rom 15:30
• Ephesians 6:18
• 1Thess 5:25

Do Angels Pray For People On Earth?

• Zechariah 1:12
• 2Peter 1:15

I agree, on both counts.

Are Saints Too Far To Hear Us?
• Luke 15:10

I don’t think it is a matter of distance, but on that point, you might want to add Luke 15:7.

Are The Angels With Us?
•Ex 23:20-23

Of course.

Why Do Catholics Honor Mary?
She Was Chosen To Give Birth To Our Savior.
• Luke 1:43
• Matt 1:23
• Galatians 4:4-5

More than that, she was truly the first and to this day greatest Christian.

Even angels honored Mary
• Luke 1:28-30

Do you think this is an issue between us?

Also , when Jesus was on the cross he has said " See Thy Mother "

Mary Also Says in the bible she shall be called blessed
• Luke 1:48

Indeed she does, but not for her own sake, but for her son’s.

Now , Protestants might say " Thease are all man made traditions "
What does Jesus say about Apostolic tradition?
• 1 Cor 11-2

I would refer you back to your first statement. Tradition is not necessarily wrong.

Protestants also believe in faith alone

• James 2:14-26
• Ephesians 2:8-10

Yes, but it might help to know what you mean by faith alone.

And Finally , Protestants also say we worship statues , which is barring false witness because we don’t worship statues as pegan religions do. We honor them and they symbolize somebody in memory of them just like you would have a picture of a dead friend or family member.

Are Statues ment to be honored?

Ex 25:18
Num 21:8

Lutherans at least are not iconoclasts. Statues are fine.

Is Purgatory In The Bible?

• 2 Maccabees 12:39-46
• Rev 21: 27
• Matt 5:25-26
• Matt 12:32
• Matt 5:48
• 1 Cor 3:10 -16
In 1Peter 3:18-20 to 4:6 Jesus preached to the sinners in prison.

Where in any of these is the mention of a state/place?

Jon

 

[Heuchler]

Where in any of these is the mention of a state/place?

Jon

In the Bible Christ refers to how some sin he was talking about will not be forgiven in this life nor in the next as if sins can be forgiven after death. And that is all we mean by purgatory, the cleansing of one’s soul before entering Heaven.

 

[Nicea325]

Quote:
Is Purgatory In The Bible?

• 2 Maccabees 12:39-46
• Rev 21: 27
• Matt 5:25-26
• Matt 12:32
• Matt 5:48
• 1 Cor 3:10 -16
In 1Peter 3:18-20 to 4:6 Jesus preached to the sinners in prison.

Where in any of these is the mention of a state/place?

With all honesty and respect,but the question is not really applicable to the supernatural or spiritual world. To be precise a place usually includes:time,space and matter,which evidently God is neither since He is eternal. Our Lord clearly says if you do not love your enemies, what reward have you? And he makes very clear these “rewards” are not of this world.

Does anyone currently living really know the exact place of Heaven or Hell? Honestly?

 

[JonNC]

In the Bible Christ refers to how some sin he was talking about will not be forgiven in this life nor in the next as if sins can be forgiven after death. And that is all we mean by purgatory, the cleansing of one’s soul before entering Heaven.

And Lutherans would concur. This still doesn’t answer the question of a state/place.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

With all honesty and respect,but the question is not really applicable to the supernatural or spiritual world. To be precise a place usually includes:time,space and matter,which evidently God is neither since He is eternal. Our Lord clearly says if you do not love your enemies, what reward have you? And he makes very clear these “rewards” are not of this world.

Does anyone currently living really know the exact place of Heaven or Hell? Honestly?

No argument. But then, that wasn’t the position of the CC in Luther’s time, the way I understand it. Am I tight that people were thought to suffer in Purgatory of years, and that those years could be reduced with indulgences, etc.?

Jon

 

[Heuchler]

And Lutherans would concur. This still doesn’t answer the question of a state/place.

Jon

I’m not sure what you mean by state/place. Technically, it is defined more as a state and I have heard some people speculate that the sorrowful ghosts some see walking around might be souls in purgatory (however, I’m not sure since I don’t really believe in ghosts). But if you could specify what you objection is exactly, I think it would make everything easier.

 

[Nicea325]

No argument. But then, that wasn’t the position of the CC in Luther’s time, the way I understand it. Am I tight that people were thought to suffer in Purgatory of years, and that those years could be reduced with indulgences, etc.?

Jon

Blessings my friend. May you please elaborate about how the “position” was different in regards to purgatory? Are saying the CC taught differently about purgatory? Or are you making reference to the theological speculation more commonly called limbo?

Peace in Christ

 

[JonNC]

Blessings my friend. May you please elaborate about how the “position” was different in regards to purgatory? Are saying the CC taught differently about purgatory? Or are you making reference to the theological speculation more commonly called limbo?

Peace in Christ

No, not limbo. Let me respond this way, could not indulgences, for example, reduce the “time” of suffering in Purgatory? Was it not taught that souls destined for Heaven, but still retaining unconfessed venial sins, went to Purgatory for a period of time in order to be cleansed of those sins? Isn’t that what Tetzel was “selling”?

In a news article marking the beginning of the Lutheran/Catholic dialogue about the hope of eternal life, Father Tavard said the following:

Tavard said purgatory has been understood by Catholics as both a place of punishment and a state of cleansing, perhaps even momentary at the time of death. The image of cleansing was prominent among the mystics, for whom final purgation meant an encounter with the “fire” of divine love which purged the effects of sin on the human person.

So, I look to you, my Catholic brothers, to explain further. Perhaps I am misunderstanding this, and in many ways, the root of the Reformation as in Luther’s 95 Theses.

Jon

 

[AmateurPianist]

As a rule I never get involved in threads whose subject says “Prove…”

I can not “prove” God exists. How then can i “prove” anything related to God.

My suggestion would be if you want someone to “prove” you state what constitutes proof. Otherwise you have the potential for a never-ending exercise in goalpost moving.

But “proving” something I will leave to somebody else. I have a difficult enough time with mathematical proofs.

 

[HolyRosario]

“Yes, but it might help to know what you mean by faith alone”

What I mean by faith without works is that without charity and helping the sick how can a person recieve a gift?
Faith without works is dead

 

[TrueLight]

These Protestants!.. …threads always make me smile.

 

[JonNC]

“Yes, but it might help to know what you mean by faith alone”

What I mean by faith without works is that without charity and helping the sick how can a person recieve a gift?
Faith without works is dead

Grace, by definition is a free gift.
But that said, sola fide does not teach the exclusion of charity. When Lutherans talk about faith, we are talking about a Galatians 5:6 faith; a faith that works through love.
So, from Luther:

Faith must of course be sincere. It must be a faith that performs good works through love. If faith lacks love it is not true faith. Thus the Apostle bars the way of hypocrites to the kingdom of Christ on all sides. He declares on the one hand, “In Christ Jesus circumcision availeth nothing,” i.e., works avail nothing, but faith alone, and that without any merit whatever, avails before God. On the other hand, the Apostle declares that without fruits faith serves no purpose. To think, “If faith justifies without works, let us work nothing,” is to despise the grace of God. Idle faith is not justifying faith. In this terse manner Paul presents the whole life of a Christian. Inwardly it consists in faith towards God, outwardly in love towards our fellow-men.

Jon