Protestants: Has the "Reformation" come to an end?

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andrewstx said:
I think it is relevant and I don’t think the “reformation” is finished. I think that for Evangelicals at least their reformation is ongoing.

Consider the ever-changing theological fads within evangelicalism. First the “rapture”, now the hybrid Christianity-Judaism, then the fad of “non-denominational” churches that implies that the only Christians to exist are evangelicals who have “got saved”.

I was raised an evangelical and I have personally witnessed this for years.

Evangelicals even have their own English and sub-culture.

I really think they believe themselves to be the worlds only Christians.

It does not matter if you have been baptized or had the other sacraments, all are only symbolic but if you have not “got saved” it is for naught and you will go to hell.

BTW I am not speaking of Evangelical Catholics at all, IOW Lutherans.
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There are many “modern” Evangelical congregation going up here. Many meet in movie theatres. They are very popular among the college students and youth. Their message here is that they are “reforming the youth of today so that they will make a better Christian tomorrow.”
 
gcnuss said:
I think the discussion here bears out what I said above. None of us, I believe, thinks that we are in error, at least in the basics of our faith. We proclaim Christ in accordance with our the understandings derived from our teaching traditions. We tend to be unwilling to bend if that means denying what we know to be truth.

That is why I said that we will only overcome our differences through baby steps. It is good that we have the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification. It is good that we have the ongoing series of Lutheran-Catholic dialogues to point out areas of convergence and to recognize areas of divergence that require more study and dialogue. But, there are substantial differences to overcome before we will be blessed with unity.

I continue to pray for that unity, although I may only experience it in God’s nearer presence.
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I really enjoy discussing the Faith catholic with those that are passionate about their faith like the posters on this Forum and especially this thread…

Mary.
 
babs57 said:
I really mean no disrespect, but how can one converge belief? How can one, for instance, converge the belief that The Blessed Sacrament is the ACTUAL body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, with the belief that it is not?
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Yeah, I understand. Then again, coming from a Lutheran perspective, we share the belief that it is, truly, really His body and blood.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
I understand. My point was Smith’s reform is not a result or related to ours.

Jon
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We are on the same page 😉

When I say Lutheran>Mormon…I could also say Lutheran>Baptist or Lutheran>Methodist.

Here I will explain it better I hope.

Catholic>>Anglican>>>Methodist

Catholic>>Lutheran>>Many synods with Lutheranism

Catholic>>Calvinism>>New Calvinism

Anglican>> Episcopalian>>Low Anglicanism

Etc Etc…lol

Just stressing that when one reforms, another will reform from that

Mormonism today is not the Mormonism Smith created nor is it related to Lutheranism at all. Better? 👍
 
aidanbradypop said:
We are on the same page 😉

When I say Lutheran>Mormon…I could also say Lutheran>Baptist or Lutheran>Methodist.

Here I will explain it better I hope.

Catholic>>Anglican>>>Methodist

Catholic>>Lutheran>>Many synods with Lutheranism

Catholic>>Calvinism>>New Calvinism

Anglican>> Episcopalian>>Low Anglicanism

Etc Etc…lol

Just stressing that when one reforms, another will reform from that

Mormonism today is not the Mormonism Smith created nor is it related to Lutheranism at all. Better? 👍
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Ok.

Jon
 
aidanbradypop said:
We are on the same page 😉

When I say Lutheran>Mormon…I could also say Lutheran>Baptist or Lutheran>Methodist.

Here I will explain it better I hope.

Catholic>>Anglican>>>Methodist

Catholic>>Lutheran>>Many synods with Lutheranism

Catholic>>Calvinism>>New Calvinism

Anglican>> Episcopalian>>Low Anglicanism

Etc Etc…lol

Just stressing that when one reforms, another will reform from that

Mormonism today is not the Mormonism Smith created nor is it related to Lutheranism at all. Better? 👍
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You forgot fundamentalism.
😃
 
JonNC said:
I understand. My point was Smith’s reform is not a result or related to ours.

Jon
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I agree Jon, and pop has expanded on that statement now.
I certainly would not want Smith’s “reform” tied to Catholicism in any way either.
I’m sure you know what I mean.
Mary.
 
JustaServant said:
You forgot fundamentalism.
😃
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:nope:…Etc Etc lol

I could have went on and on lol

The point I really want to stress is that reform begets reform.

Southern Baptist, General Conference Baptist, Freewill Baptist, Freewill Independent Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Orthodox Baptist, Free Baptist,

I believe the “reformation” will never end. Sadly, in today’s era, social issues are the driving force in a lot of cases.
 
aidanbradypop said:
:nope:…Etc Etc lol

I could have went on and on lol

The point I really want to stress is that reform begets reform.

Southern Baptist, General Conference Baptist, Freewill Baptist, Freewill Independent Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Orthodox Baptist, Free Baptist,

I believe the “reformation” will never end. Sadly, in today’s era, social issues are the driving force in a lot of cases.
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You could go on and on and on with the ‘independent’ groups. Every time they get into a church fight they “reform” again by starting a new ‘church’ in thier house or a meet at the Y. 😃
Then some more people get mad at that church and form an even smaller group. :eek:
 
JustaServant said:
You could go on and on and on with the ‘independent’ groups. Every time they get into a church fight they “reform” again by starting a new ‘church’ in thier house or a meet at the Y. 😃
Then some more people get mad at that church and form an even smaller group. :eek:
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Catholicism is not spared from this either.

Catholic>>Old Catholic>>Polish Catholics>>Independent Catholic>>SSPX…etc…etc
 
aidanbradypop said:
Catholicism is not spared from this either.

Catholic>>Old Catholic>>Polish Catholics>>Independent Catholic>>SSPX…etc…etc
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And they are, no surprise, not much different than fundamentalists.
But I’ll leave that on the TC forum.
Back to topic.
 
JonNC said:
Yeah, I understand. Then again, coming from a Lutheran perspective, we share the belief that it is, truly, really His body and blood.

Jon
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Yes, we are very close on this indeed. :yup: There are some differences, such as what happens to the substance of the bread, and who has authority to offer the sacrifice at the altar. But, I have found that Lutherans and Catholics are practically the same in most ways. (I LOVE the JD, and hope that more can be done on other topics as well.) However, many other denominations are way off track.

I think, in general, the differences that exist could be traced back to the question of authority. Who has authority over what, and how did they get it? In today’s world, people are loathe to be told what to do. It’s the whole “You’re not the boss of me!” thing. I think that that’s how things have gotten so out of hand. I don’t know. What do you think?
 
babs57 said:
Yes, we are very close on this indeed. :yup: There are some differences, such as what happens to the substance of the bread, and who has authority to offer the sacrifice at the altar. But, I have found that Lutherans and Catholics are practically the same in most ways. (I LOVE the JD, and hope that more can be done on other topics as well.) However, many other denominations are way off track.

I think, in general, the differences that exist could be traced back to the question of authority. Who has authority over what, and how did they get it? In today’s world, people are loathe to be told what to do. It’s the whole “You’re not the boss of me!” thing. I think that that’s how things have gotten so out of hand. I don’t know. What do you think?
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I agree;; my LCMS Pastor friend and I love to discuss theology and he says the main
difference is indeed Authority…it lends itself to all the other divisions we see
and the great divide between Protetestants and Catholics.

I couldn’t agree more in today’s world people tend to dislke ANY Church “telling them
what to do” especially in the case of morals. (that’s another thread of course)
Also for Churches that practice Closed Communion you get this “How dare they Deny
me Communion mentality sometimes” when in fact you receive Communion.
You don’t take it.

(Another thread)
Trying better to stay on topic now 🙂
Mary.

Mary.
 
Id say it has ended a long time ago & it has utterly FAILED in it’s mission- We have tens of thousands of denominations, some with as different beliefs that we have to really reconsider what ine needs to believe to be a Christian in the classic sense of the word.
It did succeed in opening the eyes of the westerners to other means to salvation in Christ other thanspecifically the Roman Catholic Church, like the Eastern Orthodox Church & the Oriental Orthodox churches.

You know, within christianity there has been controversy on just what is the “right faith” about Jesus etc. from the very beginning. The church formed early because there were people agreeing like St. Peter & St. Paul etc. But there never was “One” church as such & never will be
 
Shamati said:
Id say it has ended a long time ago & it has utterly FAILED in it’s mission- We have tens of thousands of denominations, some with as different beliefs that we have to really reconsider what ine needs to believe to be a Christian in the classic sense of the word.
It did succeed in opening the eyes of the westerners to other means to salvation in Christ other thanspecifically the Roman Catholic Church, like the Eastern Orthodox Church & the Oriental Orthodox churches.

You know, within christianity there has been controversy on just what is the “right faith” about Jesus etc. from the very beginning. The church formed early because there were people agreeing like St. Peter & St. Paul etc. But there never was “One” church as such & never will be
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You raise some interesting questions and concerns.

What was/is the mission on the reformation?
 
aidanbradypop said:
You raise some interesting questions and concerns.

What was/is the mission on the reformation?
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I believe the mission was first to purify the church from selling indulgences and general corruption but wuickly became to satisfy the personal prestige and ego of Martin Luther
 
The saddest part about the “reformation” is that God had sent some wonderful Saints who were performing awesome miracles. Trying to put the spiritual leaders of the Church back on the right track.

If people had just worked with God and those He sent in the way He wished…
 
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