Protestants: The Invisibility Factor?

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Daniel_Marsh said:
Most of us protestants will agree with this statement,

freshfire.ca/FFMI/statement.html

Romans 12:3-8

3For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. 4Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his[a]faith. 7If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

1 Corinthians 12:12-14

12The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptized by[a] one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many.

Ephesians 1:22-23

22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Ephesians 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

1 Corinthians 3:16

16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Ephesians 4:11-16

11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Ephesians 2:6
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

In short, we believe in the “spiritual body of Christ” and the local visible body of christ, church.

Now, there are some Baptists who deny that there is an Universal, spiritual body of Christ. They claim that there is only a local church.

www2.tnweb.com/pbc/RMason/myth5.htm
baptistpillar.com/bd0263.htm
pbministries.org/books/pink/Miscellaneous/universal-or-local.htm hccentral.com/gkeys/body.html baptistpillar.com/bd0131.htm
metro.bmaweb.net/uct_new.htm
sovereigngrace.net/invisible.htm
google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=-catholic±roman+Mystical+universal+church±unitarian+%22body+of+christ%22+spiritual
baptistpillar.com/bd0263.htm
mb-soft.com/believe/txn/church.htm
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Hi Daniel,
YEP I agree and I BELIEVE:yup: :clapping: :bowdown2:
 
I have never considered the universal (invisible) church to be the same body as the physical church. The first is all of those people who will be in heaven for eternaty. The second is the group of people who meet together on eatrh to worship God.
 
AlegreFe said:
We understand that this is what is meant by “invisible church” by the Protestants. Gregory has pointed that out in his post. I also understand this because I have Protestant friends who tell me this.

What Gregory has also pointed out was that there is a denial on the part of the Protestants that the Church has to be ONE.
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Which it is - because it is united in Christ by the Spirit of Christ Who is in the members of Christ. This unity is far more fundamental than all the human structures - those are superficial; at most, they witness to the unity of the Church in Christ; they cannot give unity - God does that.​

And we have to have ONE head of the Church of whom Jesus Christ appointed Peter for that.
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WRONG 😃 - the Father appointed His Son to be the Head of the Body. Is Peter the Head of the Body of Christ ? Is Christ a two-headed-monster !!! Of course not. 🙂 “Christ is the Head”; or so St.Paul says; Christ - not Peter.​

There is only ONE Holy Spirit with only ONE interpretation of the Bible and only ONE teaching of the ONE Church. I don’t see what is so hard to understand about that. :confused:
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Other things make more sense of the Bible, or are closer to it - so it can be argued:​

  • Eph 4:1 I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called,
  • Eph 4:2 with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love,
  • Eph 4:3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
  • Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call,
  • Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
  • Eph 4:6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.
  • Eph 4:7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
    None of those “ones” has any source but God - for God is One. No Pope, no Peter, no hierarchy, is in that list; nor anything like that.
Which may be why Catholic ideas are often unconvincing - for they don’t take account of all that the Bible says, but (popularly anyway, too often) only of “proof-texts”. They are overly Rome/Pope/Peter/authority-centred - & not sufficiently Christ-centred.

Protestants don’t deny the unity of the Church - they do deny that it is Papal, & they do deny that the Pope is so necessary that there cannot be a true Church of Christ without the Pope. It is, after all, God Who assures the unity of the Church - not Popes or hierarchies. There is a good Biblical case for a far simpler set of structures than the liturgical Churches have. As for bishops being necessary to the being of the Church [the CC dogma], & not just to its *well-being *[the Anglican doctrine]; it’s hard to see how that is in the Bible. To make the Pope as necessary to the Church as the CC does, looks like exaggeration of the Pope, & forgetfulness of the Holy Spirit; & the Holy Spirit has rather been overshadowed by the development of devotion to the Mother of God; she is expected to do things which the NT attributes to Him. ##
 
Most Protestants are part of the One Catholic Church according to this (and my) definition. Just not the Roman Catholic Church. Anyone who believes in the Trinity is “Catholic”.
WP
Code: 
QUICUNQUE VULT

Whosoever will be saved : before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholick Faith.

Which Faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled : without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

And the Catholick Faith is this : That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

Neither confounding the Persons : not dividing the Substance.

For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son : and another of the Holy Ghost.

But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one : the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal.

Such as the Father is, such is the Son : and such is the Holy Ghost.

The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate : and the Holy Ghost uncreate.

The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible : and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible.

The Father eternal, the Son eternal : and the Holy Ghost eternal.

And yet they are not three eternals : but one eternal.

As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor three uncreated : but one uncreated, and one incomprehensible.

So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty : and the Holy Ghost Almighty.

And yet they are not three Almighties : but one Almighty.

So the Father is God, the Son is God : and the Holy Ghost is God.

And yet they are not three Gods : but one God.

So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord : and the Holy Ghost Lord.

And yet not three Lords : but one Lord.

For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity : to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

So are we forbidden by the Catholick Religion : to say there be three Gods, or three Lords.

The Father is made of none : neither created, nor begotten.

The Son is of the Father alone : not made, nor created, but begotten.

The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son : neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons : one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.

And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other : none is greater, or less than another;

But the whole three Persons are co-eternal together : and co-equal.

So that in all things, as is aforesaid : the Unity in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

He therefore that will be saved : must thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation : that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

For the right Faith is that we believe and confess : that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man;

God, of the Substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds : and Man, of the Substance of his Mother, born in the world;

Perfect God, and Perfect Man : of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting;

Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead : and inferior to the Father, as touching his Manhood.

Who although he be God and Man : yet he is not two, but one Christ;

One, not by the conversion of the Godhead into flesh : but by taking of the Manhood into God;

One altogether, not by confusion of Substance : but by unity of Person.

For as reasonable soul and flesh is one man : so God and Man is one Christ.

Who suffered for our salvation : descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead.

He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty : from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies : and shall give account for their own works.

And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting : and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

This is the Catholick Faith : which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son : and to the Holy Ghost;

As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be : world without end. Amen.
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:
the Father appointed His Son to be the Head of the Body. Is Peter the Head of the Body of Christ ? Is Christ a two-headed-monster !!! Of course not. 🙂 “Christ is the Head”; or so St.Paul says; Christ - not Peter. ##
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Yes you’re right. What I meant was that Christ put Peter in charge of His Church here on earth. Yes I know that Christ is the “HEAD” and we are the “members” of His body the Church. I should’ve thought twice about my wording. Somehow I think you know what I meant though. 😉
 
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