Psalm 58 - Douay-Rheims

[SeanF1989]

In my Douay-Rheims Bible at Psalm 58 it refers to the Jews at the enemy of Christ.

Did the word enemy have a different meaning in the 16th century?

 

[SidRothchild]

Jesus and all the apostles were Jews, so I don’t quite understand that.

 

[De_Maria]

In my Douay-Rheims Bible at Psalm 58 it refers to the Jews at the enemy of Christ.

Did the word enemy have a different meaning in the 16th century?

The Jews which did not convert to the Catholic Church were at first, persecutors of the Church. It is well documented in Scripture and history that the Jews hated Jesus Christ and Christians.

Is that to which you refer? Or do you mean the “Christ” in the generic sense of the “annointed” of God without a specific reference to Jesus Christ?

 

[De_Maria]

Jesus and all the apostles were Jews, so I don’t quite understand that.

Why was Jesus crucified and by whom?

 

[AmbroseSJ]

In my Douay-Rheims Bible at Psalm 58 it refers to the Jews at the enemy of Christ.

Did the word enemy have a different meaning in the 16th century?

You are apparently referring to a chapter heading or a footnote, since that is certainly not in Psalm 58. With that in mind, the reference is to the Jews that were the enemy of Jesus Christ on earth. Even then, the reference to “the Jews” as used in the Gospels is meaning the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem. Remember on Palm Sunday, Jesus was surrounded by friends (most of whom were Jews.) But in Jerusalem, led by the Pharisees and Scribes, the urban Jews were less impressed and/or hated Jesus. These are the enemies being referred to by Psalm 58. Pope Benedict XVI’s new book Jesus of Nazareth, Part II, goes into this distinction quite clearly.

 

[SidRothchild]

Why was Jesus crucified and by whom?

Nazi’s were Christians…so I guess all Christians hate jews as well, right?

There were certainly people within the jewish leadership who feared and hated Jesus, but there were also those that loved Jesus and to whom we owe much to.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Psalm 58 - Douay
Prefatory note: A prayer to be delivered from the wicked, with confidence in God’s help and protection. It agrees to Christ and his enemies the Jews.

 

[meltzerboy]

Why was Jesus crucified and by whom?

The answer to this question is more challenging than you may realize, and much ink has been spilled in an effort to provide a cogent response.

 

[meltzerboy]

In my Douay-Rheims Bible at Psalm 58 it refers to the Jews at the enemy of Christ.

Did the word enemy have a different meaning in the 16th century?

The translation, let alone meaning, of this Psalm is one of the most problematic in the Hebrew Bible. Suffice it to say, however, that Jewish interpretations don’t refer to Jesus at all in their analysis. Christian interpretations, as you probably know, tend to interpret so many passages in the Hebrew Bible as relating to or foreshadowing Jesus, as well as Mary.

 

[Mintaka]

That’s a prefatory note. It’s not in the Vulgate in the Latin, it’s not in the Bible. It’s a note. Just like there are times today when a footnote is wrong, old books can be wrong in their notes, too. Roll your eyes when you have to, and know that humans have always been fallible in every age.

The important thing for you to know is that there is a Christological way to read the psalm, and that it relates to Jesus’ suffering and death and those who acted toward Him as enemies. However, the mention in the psalm of “the nations” (aka “the Gentiles” or “nations not Israel”) means that it’s also talking about the Romans, and in a bigger sense, about all human beings who sin.

We’re all His enemies, I’m afraid, except His mom. She’s the only one who didn’t do it to Him.

But on the other hand, He is also Man and God, standing for all of us who are in trouble, including the trouble that we get ourselves into by sinning against Him. So even as the psalm talks about how we legitimately could really get it, it is also talking about how God is our Savior and won’t abandon us.

This is why Christological readings are so deep.

 

[De_Maria]

Nazi’s were Christians…so I guess all Christians hate jews as well, right?

Non sequitur. We’re not talking about Nazi’s. We’re talking about why Jews are called the enemies of Christ.

There were certainly people within the jewish leadership who feared and hated Jesus,

Are there any Jews today who hate Christ?

but there were also those that loved Jesus and to whom we owe much to.

They became Christians. Those who did not convert persecuted the Church.

 

[SidRothchild]

Non sequitur. We’re not talking about Nazi’s. We’re talking about why Jews are called the enemies of Christ.

Are there any Jews today who hate Christ?

They became Christians. Those who did not convert persecuted the Church.

I’m not sure I should even respond to this, because I’m not really sure at what you’re trying to get at, but here goes. Not every Jew who did not to become a Christian hated and persecuted Christians, they just did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

I’ve talked to several Jews about Christ and they call him a prophet, but don’t think he was their savior, that’s not exactly hating him.

If all you are trying to do is explain the literal text in the Bible then I think there are several very educated answers already in this thread.

 

[fred_conty]

In my Douay-Rheims Bible at Psalm 58 it refers to the Jews at the enemy of Christ.

Did the word enemy have a different meaning in the 16th century?

In Jesus’ time, there was the Jewish populace, and there was the Jewish leadership.
The leadership was the group that intended to eliminate Jesus because he was growing
in favor with the people and they were concerned that they might lose their control
and place among the people. These were the scribes, pharisees, and ruling class.

When Jesus spoke of the Jews in a negative way, it was this group. As an example
once when the apostles were going up to Jerusalem to celebrate a Jewish holy day,
Jesus said something to the effect that he didn’t want to go with them right now for
the Jews were looking for him. Then Jesus sent them on their way, and he followed
them later on. He didn’t mean the populace, but the Jewish leadership.

In reading the Bible, when this distinction of “Jews” is kept in mind, it helps.
At other times the reference to the people or the leadership is not so clear.

Just a thought.