Psychic powers

[praxising]

Maybe I missed it, but the most significant aspect of gifts of the Spirit which must never be overlooked or forgotton is that they are given to us to glorify GOD alone.

You know, they are actually given to us to “benefit all.”

Padre Pio was as psychic as they come. I doubt he was trying to glorify himself. But people will make a big fuss about such a person. Not the fault of the person.

However,   there are people that appear to be in familar relationships with evil spirits. They appear on TV shows  giving details about   dead relatives  from information obtained by communicating with  evil spirits.

*You *know John Edward made a pact with evil? I wonder how that works with a Catholic guy who prays the Rosary so constantly and tells people to pray more, wrote a book about prayer and through the very work you are trying to demonize, caused many to come back to the Church? Get educated before you slander folks. If you want to avoid all this, do so. But this kind of talk just causes a lot of darkness where there could be Light. As John always says, “All of this happens through Love, through God.”

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

To have these gifts/powers/abilities is quite natural, it’s a matter of tuning in. They arise quite spontaneously, but can be a distraction/temptation and something we go after.
St John of the Cross warns against grasping at them as if they were an end in themselves which clearly they are not.
There’s many levels of being which we can encounter in prayer, as I said it’s a matter of tuning in. But be warned the darkest part is around the light.
When holy people are dying it’s then the devil tries his hardest to capture their soul.
It’s when we are getting closer to God the devil fights most desperately.
St Paul tells us, pray at all times. St Padre Pio used his rosary as a whip to beat the devil into submission. And says once you see a fallen angel, they’re nothing to be afraid of, they are pathetic, things more to be pitied than anything else.
But they can become very irritating, and test one’s patience. They know they’ll lose if we remain faithful.

 

[PJM]

=pira114;7841000]PJM,

Thank you! So now I have to ask, is there any Scriptural reference to support God giving regular people the ability to do what we call Psychic powers? Talk to the dead, see the future, bend spoons, whatever. In other words, is there anything in the Bible that would suggest Psychic powers are NOT demonic in origin?

Noting that I am aware of to both questions.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Noting that I am aware of to both questions.

God Bless,
Pat

Do you mean to write “nothing” if that is the case and reading you are Catholic
is confusing - you negate the great commissioning of Christ; the works of Grace and the ministry of the priest (especially the ability to turn bread and wine into God!)

 

[coco2]

You know, they are actually given to us to “benefit all.”

Padre Pio was as psychic as they come. I doubt he was trying to glorify himself. But people will make a big fuss about such a person. Not the fault of the person.

*You *know John Edward made a pact with evil? I wonder how that works with a Catholic guy who prays the Rosary so constantly and tells people to pray more, wrote a book about prayer and through the very work you are trying to demonize, caused many to come back to the Church? Get educated before you slander folks. If you want to avoid all this, do so. But this kind of talk just causes a lot of darkness where there could be Light. As John always says, “All of this happens through Love, through God.”

I know John Edwards has said things about prayer and the rosary, which I find interesting because he doesn’t believe there is a hell; purgatory, yes, hell, no. If there isn’t a hell, then there aren’t demons or any reason to pray the rosary.

 

[praxising]

I know John Edwards has said things about prayer and the rosary, which I find interesting because he doesn’t believe there is a hell; purgatory, yes, hell, no. If there isn’t a hell, then there aren’t demons or any reason to pray the rosary.

Just FYI because it’s easily confused, John Edwards is a politician, John Edward is the psychic.

My understanding from all I have heard him say on the topic, and he avoids it I believe because there’s nothing the Liar likes so much as that we speak of him, is that John’s version of hell is aligned with the Eastern Rites: it’s there, but doesn’t have to be permanent. IOW, Purgatory and Hell comprise a gradient of being separated from God, rather than two discrete places. I have no idea if he thinks a soul can be completely lost.

As for why we pray the Rosary, well, you may do so because of demons, I certainly don’t. It’s a form of devotion which I pray for a variety of reasons. Demons aren’t one of them. Your idea that you know what JE thinks on that topic is most assuredly mistaken. You really can’t tell much about a person from edited to serve an agenda bits and pieces of something on YouTube.

I’ve met very few people in my life about whom I would say they seem to “pray constantly.” But he’s one of them. I’m not trying to sell you anything, you are welcome to avoid all mediums and psychic stuff as you wish and believe. But I have a problem with the casual way people get slandered around this place. I’m sure you didn’t mean it that way.

 

[coco2]

Just FYI because it’s easily confused, John Edwards is a politician, John Edward is the psychic.

My understanding from all I have heard him say on the topic, and he avoids it I believe because there’s nothing the Liar likes so much as that we speak of him, is that John’s version of hell is aligned with the Eastern Rites: it’s there, but doesn’t have to be permanent. IOW, Purgatory and Hell comprise a gradient of being separated from God, rather than two discrete places. I have no idea if he thinks a soul can be completely lost.

As for why we pray the Rosary, well, you may do so because of demons, I certainly don’t. It’s a form of devotion which I pray for a variety of reasons. Demons aren’t one of them. Your idea that you know what JE thinks on that topic is most assuredly mistaken. You really can’t tell much about a person from edited to serve an agenda bits and pieces of something on YouTube.

I’ve met very few people in my life about whom I would say they seem to “pray constantly.” But he’s one of them. I’m not trying to sell you anything, you are welcome to avoid all mediums and psychic stuff as you wish and believe. But I have a problem with the casual way people get slandered around this place. I’m sure you didn’t mean it that way.

Oh thanks for telling me about the spelling of his name. Actually, I heard him during an interview on I think it was Larry King. He was specifically asked…Do you believe in heaven? “yes”. do you believe in purgatory? “yes” do you believe in hell? “no”. So I am saying what I heard and watched him say.

What do you mean I might pray the rosary because of demons? What I mean is, if people think they are going to heaven no matter what, why spend time praying the rosary either for themselves or for others?

 

[coco2]

The Eastern rite doesn’t believe that hell is permanent?

 

[George_Pierson]

Divination and magic

2115

God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.

2116

All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

2117

All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others—even if this were for the sake of restoring their health—are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

2138

Superstition is a departure from the worship that we give to the true God. It is manifested in idolatry, as well as in various forms of divination and magic.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

One of the troubles with clairvoyance is it foretells the future - if nothing changes in the meantime.
And it opens doors you don’t necessarily want to go through.
If you get a message from God, Father says to reject it as if it did not come from God. God will understand. And it shows humility, the devil has difficulty with the humble, St Jean Vianney was told this is the safest path.

The devil’s a tricky fellow - he can come to you in any guise, an angel of light or a scary demon. One minute he will be telling you the truth, the next, a lie. Anything to get you away from God. He hates you.
And he is very angry at us for his being thrown out of heaven. Man can get closer to God than the angels, the devil knows it, he is jealous and hates you for it.

 

[praxising]

The Eastern rite doesn’t believe that hell is permanent?

Well, the Ruthenians don’t and I was told generally, no, they don’t. Never have.

 

[praxising]

Oh thanks for telling me about the spelling of his name. Actually, I heard him during an interview on I think it was Larry King. He was specifically asked…Do you believe in heaven? “yes”. do you believe in purgatory? “yes” do you believe in hell? “no”. So I am saying what I heard and watched him say.

Ah, yes, thar makes sense. Hard to go into a long discourse on Larry King when you have a couple minutes before he rushes you to take callers. John, who couches things in terms of everyone, not just Catholics, refers to the “dropout hangout.” It’s his version of hell. I think when you are his age raised with the idea of die, God judges you and sends you to hell for permanent punishment of what is always temporal sin, instead of the adult understanding that people put themselves there and all they needed to do was call out to be saved, then John is only telling the Truth, he does not believe in that older version of hell. Nor do I or most Catholic theologians. Probably any.

What do you mean I might pray the rosary because of demons? What I mean is, if people think they are going to heaven no matter what, why spend time praying the rosary either for themselves or for others?

I’m sorry, I wasn’t trying to be offensive, I thought that was what you said, that if there were no demons why would anyone pray the Rosary? So I thought it was part of your own motivation.

So, why does John pray the Rosary and promote it to others? I guess you could read his book about the Rosary, it has a CD in it, too, if you want to pray with Roma Downey. . (Practical Praying is the title) But He doesn’t say everyone is going to Heaven no matter what. Remember, he does believe in Purgatory, in “lower energies” and advises against things like Ouija boards that can “invite strangers into your house” as he puts it. He prays for the same reasons we do, as far as I know, because of how much it helps those who have passed, because of how much it helps those he loves and how much it helps him. Thing is, they ask so often, the ones who have passed, they ask people here to pray for them.

If it wasn’t so late I’d look through my copy and post a couple quotes, but, too tired!

 

[praxising]

2116

All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

Not to worry. No one has the ability to “conjure up the dead.” The dead really do want to let people know they are alive and well on the Other Side, whatever part of it they inhabit, and they do all the coming through on their own. There is no power but God’s.

And this is just foolish:

and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings

I mean, what would have happened if NO ONE went to Fatima to witness the miracle of the appearance of a dead woman? What if St Joan never reported what she heard or acted upon it?

Yeah, running around seeking out fortune-tellers is pretty unhealthy and interferes with the process by which we learn to trust in Jesus Christ. But people seek out mediums because of grief and loss, most often. We say we depend on the intercession of Saints, but there are way more people in heaven than the church officially recognizes. They can’t offer love and comfort and validation of the truth for us? Why not? Jesus didn’t tell Thomas, “Tough beans, if you don’t have faith, I’m not proving anything to you!” - No, He said, “Come on over and put your hand in my side.”

It can’t be a sin to do anything Jesus did because He was without sin. If He can go up a on a mountain and converse with Moses and Elijah, and let people who were dead out of wherever they were to appear to their relatives in Jerusalem, then it can’t be a sin and is powered by the Divine.

The proof is in the fruits.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

I mean, what would have happened if NO ONE went to Fatima to witness the miracle of the appearance of a dead woman? What if St Joan never reported what she heard or acted upon it?

Yeah, running around seeking out fortune-tellers is pretty unhealthy and interferes with the process by which we learn to trust in Jesus Christ. But people seek out mediums because of grief and loss, most often. We say we depend on the intercession of Saints, but there are way more people in heaven than the church officially recognizes. They can’t offer love and comfort and validation of the truth for us? Why not? Jesus didn’t tell Thomas, “Tough beans, if you don’t have faith, I’m not proving anything to you!” - No, He said, “Come on over and put your hand in my side.”

It can’t be a sin to do anything Jesus did because He was without sin. If He can go up a on a mountain and converse with Moses and Elijah, and let people who were dead out of wherever they were to appear to their relatives in Jerusalem, then it can’t be a sin and is powered by the Divine.

The proof is in the fruits.

We believe that resorting to mediums is wrong because of what the Bible has to say about it. In the Bible, Saul was told by the conjured spirit of Samuel that “tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me[Samuel]” (Samuel 28:20), indicating that Saul was to die the next day because of consulting the medium of Endor. God hates mediums so much that if you read the Book of Deuteronomy, God devotes virtually all of His time to show the Israelites His derision of mediums and those who consult them. God’s commandment is quite blunt: "There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God, for these nations, which you are about to dispossess, listen to fortune-tellers and to diviners. But as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do this (Deuteronomy 18:10-12). No ifs, no buts - consultation to mediums is everywhere and anywhere a bad thing.

As for where you say “it is powered by the Divine”, this shows that you don’t really understand how the devil works. The devil was made amongst the best of God’s angels (Ezekiel 28:11-19). The devil has many, many abilities, and modern culture should not underestimate how crafty this creature really is. The devil can appear as an “angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:14), giving so-called comfort to those who are grieving. In the short-run, everything is all kumbaya and hunky-dory. In the long-run, it can only lead to more misery. The devil has powers in his own right, from the day he was created as an angel, and this explains why mediums can see warped versions of the future because of the devil’s skill. In rare cases, God can give the devil and the medium an improvement of their skill to usurp those consulting them as a way to “harden their hearts” (which is probably what happened to Saul).

If anyone is grieving, let them ask for the gift of faith, a theological virtue from God. Pray the rosary. Ask St. Therese to send you a rose if everything will be okay. Read the Bible. Seek help from friends, professionals or even here on CAF. Never consult a medium, read horoscopes, or anything of that sort…the Bible makes it absolutely clear in black-and-white English that it is wrong. It is addictive. It opens one up to possession. And it led to the downfall of kings throughout the Old Testament.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[praxising]

As for where you say “it is powered by the Divine”, this shows that you don’t really understand how the devil works.
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

I see. Well, those Pharisees who were even more conversant with the OT than you are sure seemed to understand when they accused Jesus of doing the great works He did through a partnership with that aforementioned devil. You have a cite for that? Remember what Jesus said?

I note you ignored my questions and references to the mediums that the Church recognizes as Saints and the good that came of people seeking them out.

 

[PRmerger]

Well, the Ruthenians don’t and I was told generally, no, they don’t. Never have.

It is my understanding that this is incorrect. Ruthenian Catholics are in union with the Bishop of Rome and all the teachings of the Magisterium.

 

[styrgwillidar]

The vast majority of claims of psychic powers are fraudulent. Sylvia Browne is a scam artist and there are several websites which actually go through her predictions and show that the accuracy of her predictions are no better than random chance. She has ‘seen’ that missing people are dead, only for them to turn up alive and vice versa.

Police departments have been known to exploit psychics by publicizing their involvement in the hopes of provoking a response in a suspect who might be stupid/superstitious enough to believe in them. Not because the psychics themselves do anything useful. (Kind of like lie detectors). There are no police departments which regularly employ/utilize psychics but there are many psychics which fraudulently claim involvement in cases.

Although many skeptic sites are anti-religion; they are useful if your are interested in the pursuit of truth in understanding flaws in human thinking and perception which make us susceptible to belief in psychics. ‘The Amazing Randi’ was a magician who, like Houdini, ended up dedicating himself to exposing frauds. www.randi.org . He’s a materialist running a materialist organization who rejects anything, including the divine, which can’t be proven.

www.skepdic.org has good sections on critical thinking as well as logic and perception. for example: skepdic.com/selectiv.html

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

I see. Well, those Pharisees who were even more conversant with the OT than you are sure seemed to understand when they accused Jesus of doing the great works He did through a partnership with that aforementioned devil. You have a cite for that? Remember what Jesus said?

I note you ignored my questions and references to the mediums that the Church recognizes as Saints and the good that came of people seeking them out.

Apologies if I sounded hostile…I really wasn’t. I just believe that it’s important to be point-blank about this subject because the devil is “like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour” (1 Peter 5:8), and no better way for the devil to achieve it’s aim than for one to indulge themselves in the spiritual realm. Would you play next to a lion’s den? The obvious answer would be no, and thus the same cautiousness should be taken with the spiritual realm.

Jesus performed miracles, and He was criticized by the Pharisees for gaining His abilities from the devil, namely, “Beelzebub” (Luke 11:15). You are correct for that part. What you have forgotten however is that Jesus’ existence wasn’t really based on miracles in their own right, but from the fact that Scriptures prophecized about Him. Jesus never said, “I’m the Son of God, look at Me, I can perform miracles”. No. Jesus would often link His life to the fact that Scriptures foretold His coming, and used miracles as a way to further demonstrate that He was from God. So we know Jesus was the Son of God from a two-fold perspective: That the Old Testament by and large said He would come, and the fact He performed miracles for authenticity.

Jesus rarely foretold the future. He was not a medium nor did He come to Earth to be a medium. Indeed, Jesus even said that He did not know the date when the world would come to an end, but only His Father in Heaven did. Jesus humbled Himself with the abilities He had. A medium is much different. They want to predict virtually everything, and they do it for money. I think somewhere in the Bible it aptly regards mediums as “spiritual prostitutes”.

As for the saints, simply put, there were no “medium saints” nor will there ever be. I think you’re confusing prophesy (a gift from the Holy Spirit that allows one to see in the future) and a necromancy. It’s easy to make this mistake, and I can’t really blame you for making it. Because the distinction between prophesy and necromancy is very blurred, it’s why we as Catholics are told that we have to discern everything very carefully. That’s why the Church was hesitant and cautious towards Padre Pio whilst he was alive; he responded with simple obedience . One can tell the future and be from God or the devil (although the devil can only see a blurred, warped version of the future). Most of the time however, it’s fake (you can look up a term called “cold reading” if you haven’t heard it before).

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[Hineni59]

:thumbsup:I agree with you Eugen. Coming from personal experiences with occult practices I can say that this is all out war. The devil works to steal, kill and destroy. Steal believers, kill faith in people and murder their souls and destroy any good works of God.

God gives all believers gifts. Why? To fight the good fight and help others to attain heaven and develop their own spiritual lives. But most of all he gives them because he loves us and wants us to understand where they come from. Understanding this glorifies God. It makes us look to Him and say thank you or wonder at His power and intelligence.

Confusion is one of the devil’s tools. The more confusion and mixed up half-truths he can put out there the better. Look at all the posts on this topic alone and all the confusion and misunderstandings people have. God gives us the gift of knowledge, wisdom, discernment, courage and prophecy as supernatural tools to grasp the truths that He is trying to teach us.

We should NOT consult psychics or ouija boards. We SHOULD consult the HOLY SPIRIT. We can ask God to tell us what a dream meant. We can ask God to let us see our loved ones who have passed. Most of the time He lets us see them in dreams. He understands that we miss them and love them. He is a compassionate God. He is a just God. We can ask him to help us solve crimes. We don’t need psychics. PRAY! Paul says to Pray about ALL things! Remember ACTS: Adoration, Contrition, Thanksgiving and Supplication. That means love God, ponder his greatness, be sorry for your sins and go to confession then change your ways, thank Him for everything He has given you and then ask Him to help you in all that you need.

The devil is a loathsome creature who had it all and gave it all up for his own glory. He convinced 1/3 of the angels to follow his rebellion. God created Hell for them. The devil was second only to God in his beauty and intelligence. Yet, he threw it all away because he wanted to BE God. There is only one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the Great TRIUNE God. There is no being greater. Jesus himself said the devil is a liar and a murderer from the start. He should know. He was there when it all went down.

The devil is a smooth operator. He has had a lot of time to scheme and work his evil. He is extremely intelligent and he has no mercy. There is no terror or hate greater than his. He hates that humans have taken his place. Especially Mary, Our Lady. Remember Genesis 3:15. She will crush his head. That’s the end of him. By a human woman. Scripture begins with God and Mary and ends with God and Mary. How the devil hates this.

Turn to God. Transform your mind. Think on good things. That’s what scripture tells us to do and all will be well! Don’t be fooled by the slick marketing of evil. Evil is evil even if you dress it up in diamonds.