Punishment for pedophiles [Scriptural]

[Petertherock]

I was listening to a talk radio show this morning at work and they were talking about child molesters. Of course it was the panels unanimous opinion that child molesters are unable to be rehabilitated. They did say that maybe if it’s a first offense and the perpatrator is a young kid or teenager they might be able to be rehabalitated but 99.9% of these people will never be able to be rehabilatated.

This woman called and she said she is a Catholic and she had people in her family who were victims and she was looking for biblical passages on what the appropriate punishment would be for these pedophiles. She pointed out the New Testament where Jesus said, “It would be better for a person to have a millstone tied around their neck and be cast into the sea then to cause harm to one of my little ones.” This woman’s point is that even the Prince of Peace, The peaceful Jesus, the Jesus who said “Turn the other cheek.” says that death is what the person who harms children deserves.

I believe in this. The same goes for serial killers. These people are purely evil and there is no hope for any of them so they should be executed so they can’t harm any other people.

 

[walstan]

Petertherock:

I was listening to a talk radio show this morning at work and they were talking about child molesters. Of course it was the panels unanimous opinion that child molesters are unable to be rehabilitated. They did say that maybe if it’s a first offense and the perpatrator is a young kid or teenager they might be able to be rehabalitated but 99.9% of these people will never be able to be rehabilatated.

This woman called and she said she is a Catholic and she had people in her family who were victims and she was looking for biblical passages on what the appropriate punishment would be for these pedophiles. She pointed out the New Testament where Jesus said, “It would be better for a person to have a millstone tied around their neck and be cast into the sea then to cause harm to one of my little ones.” This woman’s point is that even the Prince of Peace, The peaceful Jesus, the Jesus who said “Turn the other cheek.” says that death is what the person who harms children deserves.

I believe in this. The same goes for serial killers. These people are purely evil and there is no hope for any of them so they should be executed so they can’t harm any other people.

NO NO NO!!!

Jesus did not advocate death for anyone, he pointed out the judgement of GOD (not man) would be such that it is in no way comparable to death. In other words the judgement of God is far worse. As far as the justice of man goes, fine, lock them up throw away the key, ensure they can never and I mean never allow them in the position of causing any more harm, but execution? No.

I believe (along with the Catholic Church) that everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is redeemable in the eyes of God, that is their choice. Kill somebody, either illegally or legally (execution) and you remove that chance for redemption, in other words you kill the one sheep the shepherd went out to look for when he left the other ninety nine behind. Now I don’t know how you would explain that to the shepherd when you meet him, personally I would have a major problem justifying it.

 

[Steve_Andersen]

Petertherock:

… These people are purely evil and there is no hope for any of them …

I thought the whole point of JC coming here was that there was hope for even the least of us

If you want to take it upon yourself as to who is redeemable or not then He was just wasting His time here.

 

[abcdefg]

Locking them up forever is enough. since they didn’t kill anyone

but abortionists are another story

 

[Cubsfan]

One and done. They need to be kept away from society. By the way I have always interpreted the scripture passage regarding the treatment of children that Jesus was trying to say that anyone who harms a child whether it be physically, spiritually or emotionally would be held to account … by God.

My point is that this does not only apply to pedophiles but a host of others.

 

[snoopy]

walstan:

NO NO NO!!!

Jesus did not advocate death for anyone, he pointed out the judgement of GOD (not man) would be such that it is in no way comparable to death. In other words the judgement of God is far worse. As far as the justice of man goes, fine, lock them up throw away the key, ensure they can never and I mean never allow them in the position of causing any more harm, but execution? No.

I believe (along with the Catholic Church) that everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is redeemable in the eyes of God, that is their choice. Kill somebody, either illegally or legally (execution) and you remove that chance for redemption, in other words you kill the one sheep the shepherd went out to look for when he left the other ninety nine behind. Now I don’t know how you would explain that to the shepherd when you meet him, personally I would have a major problem justifying it.

The problem is that there is always a chance for escape or slipping through the legal cracks. Ted Bundy escaped and went on to kill 3 more people. We just simply cannot take the chance on certain types of predators. They are dangerous to society even while locked up. Oprah had a guest on recently that told how they orchestrated a murder while behind bars through outside sources. So, with centain criminals, you simply cannot ensure that they will never harm anyone again. We are allowed to practice self defense when necessary, and in Ted Bundy’s case, execution was self defense in my opinion. As far as pedophiles, go, they are just as sick and cannot be trusted. In a way they do commit murder. They murder ones soul and scar them for life.

 

[Marian_Carroll]

The initial post in this thread inquired about a particular passage of Scripture in relation to pedophilia. As this is the Scripture forum I would appreciate the thread focus remaining on Scriptural passage(s)/commentary relating to the original question. Discussion of the subject in general belongs elsewhere. Your cooperation in staying within the thread context will be appreciated.

 

[walstan]

snoopy:

They murder ones soul and scar them for life.

The only one that can MURDER ones soul is oneself. Being scarred for life is only for life, murdering ones soul is for eternity.

 

[walstan]

Marian Carroll:

The initial post in this thread inquired about a particular passage of Scripture in relation to pedophilia. As this is the Scripture forum I would appreciate the thread focus remaining on Scriptural passage(s)/commentary relating to the original question. Discussion of the subject in general belongs elsewhere. Your cooperation in staying within the thread context will be appreciated.

I don’t like to argue with a moderator but, I would remind you this thread started on the “In the News” thread, the moderators moved it, not us.

 

[TOME]

I think the scriptural passage the women was refering to was Luke 17:2. I have a couple of things in reply.

First, in Luke, Jesus is talking about the inevibility that people will sin but what he says about the millstone is in reference to those who lead others to “sin”, not “harm” Also, looking at verse 2 in the context of its surrounding chapters Jesus here is talking about what is expected of his followers in areas of Faith, forgiveness, good example (in which the verses in question come up) - again behavior demanded by Jesus of his followers and there’s no real connection to that passage and our Justice system.

Another point which I see developing is just how different God’s justice is from our own. In the parable of the Prodigal Son or in the parable about the workers heired at the end of the day or Jesus’ answer to Peter’s question about how many times we should forgive others, comes the revelation that that God’s Justice and mercy are quite different from our own.

A working definition I have heard and like to use for God’s Justice is giving to someone what that person truely needs not what he deserves (which often translate into what WE think the person deserves.)

That, I believe, should be our guiding principle when discussing justice in these cases.

 

[walstan]

TOME:

I think the scriptural passage the women was refering to was Luke 17:2. I have a couple of things in reply.
First, in Luke, Jesus is talking about the inevibility that people will sin but what he says about the millstone is in reference to those who lead others to “sin”, not “harm” Also, looking at verse 2 in the context of its surrounding chapters Jesus here is talking about what is expected of his followers in areas of Faith, forgiveness, good example (in which the verses in question come up) - again behavior demanded by Jesus of his followers and there’s no real connection to that passage and our Justice system.
Another point which I see developing is just how different God’s justice is from our own. In another passage from Luke, the Prodical Son or the parable about the workers heired at the end of the day or Jesus’ answer to Peter’s question about how many times we should forgive others, comes the revelation that that God’s Justice and mercy are quite different from our own.
A working definition I have heard and for God’s Justice is
giving to someone what that person truely needs not what he deserves.
That, I believe, should be our guiding principle when discussing justice in these cases.

Nicely put.

 

[Marian_Carroll]

walstan:

I don’t like to argue with a moderator but, I would remind you this thread started on the “In the News” thread, the moderators moved it, not us.

Regardless of where it began - it is now in Scripture. The focus will therefore relate to Scriptural passages.

In the future, expressing your concerns or questions should be addressed to moderators via PM rather than the board. Thank you for your cooperation and assistance.

 

[LtTony]

snoopy:

The problem is that there is always a chance for escape or slipping through the legal cracks. Ted Bundy escaped and went on to kill 3 more people. We just simply cannot take the chance on certain types of predators…QUOTE]
NO NO NO!!!
Jesus did not advocate death for anyone, he pointed out the judgement of GOD (not man) would be such that it is in no way comparable to death. In other words the judgement of God is far worse… – Walstan

I believe both snoop and walstan make good points – hence my personal dilema regarding the death penalty. The Church says it’s wrong, so I gotta go with the view expressed by walstan. But I understand that people are in fear of all the murderous animals out there. So I would not argue with someone who supports death – even a Catholic. If supporting executions is a sin for them, it is a whole lot better than a lot of other societal sins.

Jim

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello Darryl,

Jesus gives the Apostles the power to call upon Him to “hold sins bound” in heaven. The question becomes, what happens to a man when Jesus holds a man bound to his sin in heaven? I would rather be physically stoned to death or shot than to stand before Jesus on judgement day and have Him bind my soul to sin due to His sworn oath to Apostolic Successors to do so. It is the Sword of Christ’s mouth, the power of Jesus to hold a man bound to his sin, the “keys to the Kingdom” which damns souls to spiritual death.

In Mathew 18 Jesus tells His Church that if her hand is her undoing she is to cut it off and throw it into Gehenna. In the bible, to “cut off” a portion of the body of people means to put an individual culprit to death. For an Apostolic Successor to call upon Jesus to hold a man bound to his sin in heaven, that man is cut off from the life of the body of the Church and cast into hell. (lest he repents and the sin is again loost by Apostolic Successors). Jesus tells us that it is better for the Church to cut off a portion of her body and cast it into Gehenna than to have the whole body of the Church pulled into hell through scandal.

No doubt Jesus wills Apostolic Successors to draw the sword of His mouth and wield it upon the foe. Protect and defend Christ’s Church on earth with the weapon of His mouth that He has armed Apostolic Successors with.

Please visit Throwing Stones

NAB MAT 18:5

**"Whoever welcomes one such child for my sake welcomes me. On the other hand, it would be better for anyone who leads astray one of these little ones who believes in me, to be drown by a millstone around his neck, in the depths of the sea. What terrible things will come on the world through scandal! It is inevitable that scandal should occur. Nonetheless, woe to that man through whom scandal comes! If your hand or foot is your undoing, cut it off and throw it from you! Better to enter life maimed or crippled than be thrown with two hands or feet into endless fire. If your eye is your downfall, gouge it out and cast it from you! Better to enter life with one eye than be thrown with both into fiery Gehenna. **

**NAB MAT 16:13 **

Jesus replied, “Blest are you, Simon son of John! No mere man has revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. I for my part declare to you, you are ‘Rock,’ and on this rock I will build my church, and the jaws of death shall not prevail against it. I will entrust to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

**NAB REV 1:16 **

A sharp, two-edged sword came out of his mouth, and his face shone like the sun at its brightest. When I caught sight of him I fell down at his feet as though dead, he touched me with his right hand and said: “There is nothing to fear. I am the First and the Last and the One who lives. Once I was dead but now I live-- forever and ever. I hold the keys of death and the nether world.”

NAB NUM 15:30

"But anyone who sins defiantly, whether he be a native or and alien, insults the LORD, and shall be cut off from among his people. Since he has despised the word of the LORD and has broken his commandment, he must be cut off. He has only himself to blame." The Sabbath-breaker. While the Israelites were in the desert,** a man was discovered gathering wood on the sabbath day**. Those who caught him at it brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly. But they kept him in custody, for there was no clear decision as to what should be done with him. Then the LORD said to Moses, "This man shall be put to death; let the whole community stone him outside the camp." So the whole community led him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD had commanded Moses.

 

[Steven_Merten]

Anathema

Anathema remains a major excommunication which is to be promulgated with great solemnity. A formula for this ceremony was drawn up by Pope Zachary (741-52) in the chapter Debent duodecim sacerdotes, Cause xi, quest. iii. The Roman Pontifical reproduces it in the chapter Ordo excommunicandi et absolvendi, distinguishing three sorts of excommunication: minor excommunication, formerly incurred by a person holding communication with anyone under the ban of excommunication; major excommunication, pronounced by the Pope in reading a sentence; and anathema, or the penalty incurred by crimes of the gravest order, and solemnly promulgated by the Pope. In passing this sentence, the pontiff is vested in amice, stole, and a violet cope, wearing his mitre, and assisted by twelve priests clad in their surplices and holding lighted candles. He takes his seat in front of the altar or in some other suitable place, amid pronounces the formula of anathema which ends with these words:Wherefore in the name of God the All-powerful, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, of the Blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and of all the saints, in virtue of the power which has been given us of binding and loosing in Heaven and on earth, we deprive N-- himself and all his accomplices and all his abettors of the Communion of the Body and Blood of Our Lord, we separate him from the society of all Christians, we exclude him from the bosom of our Holy Mother the Church in Heaven and on earth, we declare him excommunicated and anathematized and we judge him condemned to eternal fire with Satan and his angels and all the reprobate,

Quoted from New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia
newadvent.org/cathen/01455e.htm

 

[Petertherock]

The death penalty is perfectly accaptable when used to protect the general population. Jesus never said it was wrong to put anyone to death. Even when the “good thief” said they deserved their death Jesus didn’t rebuke him and say “No one deserves to die.” He just told the good thief he would be with him in paradice.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Petertherock:

I was listening to a talk radio show this morning at work and they were talking about child molesters. Of course it was the panels unanimous opinion that child molesters are unable to be rehabilitated. They did say that maybe if it’s a first offense and the perpatrator is a young kid or teenager they might be able to be rehabalitated but 99.9% of these people will never be able to be rehabilatated.

This woman called and she said she is a Catholic and she had people in her family who were victims and she was looking for biblical passages on what the appropriate punishment would be for these pedophiles. She pointed out the New Testament where Jesus said, “It would be better for a person to have a millstone tied around their neck and be cast into the sea then to cause harm to one of my little ones.” This woman’s point is that even the Prince of Peace, The peaceful Jesus, the Jesus who said “Turn the other cheek.” says that death is what the person who harms children deserves.

I believe in this. The same goes for serial killers. These people are purely evil and there is no hope for any of them so they should be executed so they can’t harm any other people.

Why stop at them ?

Why not kill:

• murderers
• adulterers
• persistently disobedient children
• witches
• soothsayers
• blasphemers

and all the others sentenced to death in the Law of Moses ?

Why not restore the Inquisition ? That would be a logical step. Whether it would be Christ-like, is another matter: in these matters, it helps to remembers one is not Christ.

Newsflash: none of us is Jesus.

He is sinless - we most definitely aren’t. So we do not see as we should, and are all too readily inclined to use the Will & Words of Christ as a cloak for our own savagery and unrighteousness.

BTW: no one is “purely evil” - that implies they are not created by God. Evil is present in us all - there is no real distinction between us, and those in prison. ##

 

[Steven_Merten]

Gottle of Geer:

Why stop at them ?

Why not kill:

• murderers
• adulterers
• persistently disobedient children
• witches
• soothsayers
• blasphemers

and all the others sentenced to death in the Law of Moses ?

Why not restore the Inquisition ? That would be a logical step. Whether it would be Christ-like, is another matter: in these matters, it helps to remembers one is not Christ.

Newsflash: none of us is Jesus.

He is sinless - we most definitely aren’t. So we do not see as we should, and are all too readily inclined to use the Will & Words of Christ as a cloak for our own savagery and unrighteousness.

BTW: no one is “purely evil” - that implies they are not created by God. Evil is present in us all - there is no real distinction between us, and those in prison. ##

Hello Gottle of Geer,

If you had to choose between a Pope using the Christ given power to call upon Jesus to hold you bound to your sin in heaven or state capital punishment, which would you choose? Anathema is far deadlier than physical state capital punishment.

Most Church encyclicals, dogmas and canons have/had automatic anathemas against those who refuse to accept them. There is some question as to whether or not in 1984 Pope John Paul II removed these numerous automatic anathemas attached to most Church encyclicals, dogmas and cannons. We are discussing this at:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=68639

The Church now teaches that Protestant baptism puts Protestants safely within the bosom of the Catholic Church for salvation. It was said, on the above link, that the Church does not bind spritual death anathemas on Protestants but only Catholics. Could Catholics get by without such spiritually deadly detterants as the Catholic Church has decided to allow Protestants to get by without them. Should the Church simply eliminate spiritual death bindings?

Which do you see as more deadly? Spiritual death anathemas and mortal sin bindings or state physical capital punishments?