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fdmilkis
Guest
I heard that purgatory is no more after the final judgement. If this is true, do those people who are judged good while still being alive have free direct pass to Heaven?
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christcnection1
Guest
I have wondered about this myself. I would presume no, not entirely. If we are to assume that most souls that die in the friendship of God must be purified before they enter heaven, it’s only rational that those after the final judgement will need to be purified. This of course assumes that the final judgement itself is not part of a purification process.
If the Church teaches otherwise, I would like to know. I would also like to know why these souls would have a “direct pass” as you put it, if that is the case.
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
Remember the Scripture of the workers in the field those who were hired last were paid the same amount as those who had worked all day. One can suffer temporal punishment while still alive.
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iamscifimike
Guest
I think it was Alice Krige as the Queen Borg who said… oh no, I am Scifi Mike… sorry 
well she said… humans, you think so temporally.
I imagine that there must be some level of the interpretation of “after” within the context of eternity.
There is also the matter of surviving the tribulation period. It will take a certain caliber of person to survive this. A certain level of purgation will occur and purity and uncommon devotion to the Lord will be the key to survival. ?
well she said… humans, you think so temporally.
I imagine that there must be some level of the interpretation of “after” within the context of eternity.
There is also the matter of surviving the tribulation period. It will take a certain caliber of person to survive this. A certain level of purgation will occur and purity and uncommon devotion to the Lord will be the key to survival. ?
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christcnection1
Guest
I think this is a strong and valid point. The probability that God’s people will be refined and holy during this period is great; however, that doesn’t necessarily mean they will be perfected. My guess is that this would account for the majority of the purgation though. I suspect most people will need more in order to get into heaven.
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Ginger2
Guest
1Cr 6:11 says, " …but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
So, do you think the blood of Christ did all this, but left out purification?
Do you really think that we can somehow pay for the evil we do here on Earth or in purgatory.
Once you are in purgatory how does one paid his debt? Forget that last penny. How do you even pay the first penny once you leave the physical world?
So, do you think the blood of Christ did all this, but left out purification?
Do you really think that we can somehow pay for the evil we do here on Earth or in purgatory.
Once you are in purgatory how does one paid his debt? Forget that last penny. How do you even pay the first penny once you leave the physical world?
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Verbum
Guest
Hi christcnection,
it’s only rational that those after the final judgement will need to be purified
Purgatory is not a place and is not something that happens in time. Those who will be alive when the end of the world comes, will be transformed “in the twinkling of an eye”. God, who forgives our sin in baptism, without confession, can judge us and cleanse our soul “in the twinkling of an eye”
it’s only rational that those after the final judgement will need to be purified
Purgatory is not a place and is not something that happens in time. Those who will be alive when the end of the world comes, will be transformed “in the twinkling of an eye”. God, who forgives our sin in baptism, without confession, can judge us and cleanse our soul “in the twinkling of an eye”
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christcnection1
Guest
Dear Ginger,
Maybe you should know that hundreds of former Protestants ministers and pastors would have agreed with your interpretation, but they converted to the Catholic faith within the last few years. Let the trend continue! (www.chnetwork.com)
I don’t mean to sound uncharitable. Truly I speak this out of love. However, you seem to have a false understanding of our views on justification and sanctification.
What kind of God would allow His Church to be wrong about “Sola Fide” (saved by faith alone) for nearly 1,500 years? Let me answer… Not a God of love and compassion.
This is because the Church never believed we were saved by faith alone. Please show me where the Church fathers used Bible verses to prove that good works and obedience was unnecessary in ordinary circumstances.
A good place for you to start is understanding the differences between imputed vs. infused righeousness.
Both Protestants and Catholics believe that we can only be saved through Christ alone.
We both believe that only Jesus is Lord (the Trinity is assumed.)
And we both believe that it’s impossible to earn your way to heaven.
You’re not helping anyone by throwing one scripture verse out there without dealing with countless other issues. Our discussion should be a little more intelligent than that.
To answer your question, purgatory is a direct extension of Christ’s finished work on the cross. It’s His mercy alone. He wants to perfect the good work He started in us. We will not enter heaven without being completely pure.
Have a blessed day Ginger.
Jonathon
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christcnection1
Guest
Is this what the Church officially teaches?
Yes, God can do that, but if He does not do that “in the twinkling of an eye” with everyone, it would be unjust to do it to the people at the final judgement. In theory I don’t disagree with you; it is possible.
This of course makes a mockery of the intent of purgatory in my opinion. If the Lord wanted to make it instant with everyone, but not a select group, this hardly seems equitable.
As far as I can see, if the Church has not officially said anything about it, believe whatever you want. This is just the most logically consistent stance as far as I see.
God Bless,
JB
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mark_a
Guest
Whoops, I guess we missed that one for 1500 years.
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janmat
Guest
This is true, indeed. “Our” time (and any time, actually,) is also creation. Time exists within created material system; it is strictly bind, connected to mass and energy. But God is a Spirit. Talking about what will be after time and after final judgment is superfluous. We may be misled to talking about thing, we cannot understand. Besides, theologians say that final judgment is possibly taking place at the moment of a person death. Quite logical, isnt it? Love and peace.
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mgrfin
Guest
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Verbum
Guest
Hi christcnection,
This of course makes a mockery of the intent of purgatory in my opinion. If the Lord wanted to make it instant with everyone, but not a select group, this hardly seems equitable.
Nobody deserves to go to heaven, no matter what they go through. Salvation is a free gift that we cannot deserve. As pointed out elsewhere above, the parable shows that those who came to work at the end of the day got as much as those who worked in the hot sun all day. God the All-Just owes us nothing and he decides what is fair in His eyes.
Verbum
This of course makes a mockery of the intent of purgatory in my opinion. If the Lord wanted to make it instant with everyone, but not a select group, this hardly seems equitable.
Nobody deserves to go to heaven, no matter what they go through. Salvation is a free gift that we cannot deserve. As pointed out elsewhere above, the parable shows that those who came to work at the end of the day got as much as those who worked in the hot sun all day. God the All-Just owes us nothing and he decides what is fair in His eyes.
Verbum
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christcnection1
Guest
How could you possibly believe I disagree? Nothing I said contradicts your truth-filled point. Ultimately, it’s not for me to determine.
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JeannetteCML
Guest
Isn’t the Final Judgement considered to be the end of time? Then, after time, everyone should be in their eternal state, Heaven or Hell. I don’t believe there will be any one in Purgatory after the end of time.
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Fidelis
Guest
As has been stated, the Church has no official teaching on this, but here is one explanation that I have heard, based upon the opinion of St. Thomas Aquinas:
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christcnection1
Guest
Yes, at the final judgement is it the end of time, but purgatory is an extension of heaven, is in not? All those who are in purgatory will go to heaven without exception. If they are not ready in their soul to be admitted into the unimaginable, glorious, perfection of the Lord in His eternal kingdom, additional purification must take place.
Whether or not the Lord will expedite it, that I do not know. But what we do know is that impure sinners, who still die in God’s friendship will still need cleansing before entering through the pearly gates for all eternity. It is an act of God’s love and mercy to complete to process He started in us.
I also suspect that the purification process will transpire with His children in a profoundly intense way during the tribulation period. Therefore, any other purification, in necessary, may be a quicker process. However, this is conjecture on my part.
J
JeannetteCML
Guest
I really believe that at the “end of time” there will be no more purgatory for anyone, whether purgatory is considered an extension of heaven or not. The purpose of time as we have it now is to move toward or away from God, in any state. And at the end of time, that purpose should be fulfilled for all people. Heaven will not have time as we experience it now, and it will not have time as those in purgatory experience it now. It does not make sense to have an annexed, timed section of heaven (purgatory) after eternity has begun.
But perhaps the final general judgment will occur after all purification has been completed. Maybe the end of time will come then. In any case, I am certain that God is able to work it all out and have only purified souls without blemish enter the Kingdom. He will not cheat anyone out of His gift to become clean however He brings it about.
But I do believe that at the final judgment, eternity will begin for all and everyone and, by God’s mercy, there will be an end to purgatory.
But perhaps the final general judgment will occur after all purification has been completed. Maybe the end of time will come then. In any case, I am certain that God is able to work it all out and have only purified souls without blemish enter the Kingdom. He will not cheat anyone out of His gift to become clean however He brings it about.
But I do believe that at the final judgment, eternity will begin for all and everyone and, by God’s mercy, there will be an end to purgatory.
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Ginger2
Guest
Agreed. It is Christ Jesus who has made us pure. All the good deeds in the world could not make me worthy. It is Christ Jesus who has justified me.
The Bible tells us how we are saved:
And this is the record, that God hath given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. I John 5:11
Jesus is the only way to heaven:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44
God loves you:
For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not
perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8,9
Good works are born out of faith, not the other way around.
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Ginger2
Guest
I believe the words of St. Thomas Aquinas clearly demonstrate that “faith alone” does not exlude us from works, but rather are works are justified because of our faith.
“…although some who observed the works of the Law in times past were made just, nevertheless, this was effected only by the faith of Jesus Christ.” St. Thomas Aquinas, Commentary on Saint Paul’s Epistle to the Galatians, trans. F. R. Larcher, O.P. (Albany: Magi Books, Inc., 1966), Chapter 2, Lecture 4, (Gal. 2:15-16), pp. 54-55.
Catholics and Protestants are not really at odds on this point. It is a matter of misunderstanding what we mean.
This also explains why Protestants don’t believe in purgatory. It is not necessary.
And that is why saints will go straight to heaven at the final judgement.
“…although some who observed the works of the Law in times past were made just, nevertheless, this was effected only by the faith of Jesus Christ.” St. Thomas Aquinas, Commentary on Saint Paul’s Epistle to the Galatians, trans. F. R. Larcher, O.P. (Albany: Magi Books, Inc., 1966), Chapter 2, Lecture 4, (Gal. 2:15-16), pp. 54-55.
Catholics and Protestants are not really at odds on this point. It is a matter of misunderstanding what we mean.
This also explains why Protestants don’t believe in purgatory. It is not necessary.
And that is why saints will go straight to heaven at the final judgement.
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