Purgatory in Exodus?

[in_servitude]

If this is covered already - please give me a pointer to the docs. I did some searches and can’t seem to put my finger on it.

I see now that we have a powerful model for our spiritual life given to us through the events in Exodus. The Jews are given life and freedom from bondage through the 1st Passover. Next, they pass into the desert where they spend 40 years to learn how to avoid sinful behavior before being allowed into the promised land.

At this point, I see that the 1st Passover is a physical model for what the Eucharist does spiritually. Once we are freed from bondage (on Earth through our death), if we are in communion with God - I believe that we will experience purgatory (most of us, anyway). I see the wandering in the desert by the Jews to be a physical model for our spiritual journey through Purgatory and then to Heaven (I think the promised land is an obvious physical model for Heaven).

Is this a proper understanding or concept?

 

[bmullins]

I think it is a possible type for purgatory. The problem might be reconciling the fact that the first generation ‘died’ in the desert. That only the new were allowed into the promised land. One could see that as a type of the ‘new man’ in Christ. That the old man must die in purgatory before the new man can enter into Heaven.

 

[GEddie]

Unless one is Enoch or Elijah, one does not enter Heaven without being physically dead. So the Exodus still works as Purgatory, although the order is reversed, because obviously the Scriptural writer could not follow the experiences of people who had died.

Even Moses felt the hideous touch of death before showing up in the Land beside our LORD.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Gorgias]

It makes for an interesting spiritual reflection, but I wouldn’t take it too far.

After all, the 40 years in the desert was meant as a punishment for disobeying the Lord (vis-a-vis the golden calf incident): those who were there were found to be unsuitable for the Promised Land. (Note that 40 years is the number that represents the span of the “lifetime” of a generation. The implication is that everyone who was present at the base of the mountain dies, because God, who rescues them from slavery, nonetheless finds them unworthy of entrance into His promise. Even Moses! – but that’s a different story, and it’s based on a different transgression.)

Note that the time spent in the desert also doesn’t actually purge them of their sins – they’re just about as bad at the time that they enter the Promised Land as the time that they worshiped a golden calf (and, in fact, when they scout out the Land, most come back saying, “Nahhh… we don’t wanna go there – it’s gonna be too difficult to make the Promised Land our home!”).

Nonetheless, there is a bit of the notion of a spiritual entry into the Promised Land for those who wandered in the desert – the Israelites of that day didn’t really believe in the existence of heaven (that understanding developed over time). Rather, it was believed that people “lived on” in the memories that were carried by their children (this is one of the reasons that it’s so important for them to be able to have children). In this sense, God isn’t cutting them off, since their children live on in the Promised Land. It’s not quite redemption, but it’s as close as they’re gonna get.

 

[GEddie]

. It makes for an interesting spiritual reflection, but I wouldn’t take it too far.

After all, the 40 years in the desert was meant as a punishment for disobeying the Lord (vis-a-vis the golden calf incident): those who were there were found to be unsuitable for the Promised Land.

So? Theologically, Purgatory is likewise a punishment (as, for that matter, is human death).

ICXC NIKA

 

[Gorgias]

So? Theologically, Purgatory is likewise a punishment (as, for that matter, is human death).

No. Neither of them is punishment, per se.

Physical death is the consequence of the fall of Adam. (Let me offer a thought experiment: a baby is born. She is baptized, and on the way home from the baptism, dies in an auto accident. Is her death a punishment? If so, then for what? Personal sin? Baptism removes personal sin. Imputed original sin? (Following baptism???))

Purgatory, likewise, is not punishment. It is purgation; as the catechism states, “All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.” (CCC 1030-1031).

 

[GEddie]

No. Neither of them is punishment, per se.

Physical death is the consequence of the fall of Adam. (Let me offer a thought experiment: a baby is born. She is baptized, and on the way home from the baptism, dies in an auto accident. Is her death a punishment? If so, then for what? Personal sin? Baptism removes personal sin. Imputed original sin? (Following baptism???))

Purgatory, likewise, is not punishment. It is purgation; as the catechism states, “All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.” (CCC 1030-1031).

While you may have a point regarding human death, (and if THAT is not punishment, wha t is???), I am reasonably sure that the Church still refers to Purgatory as “temporal PUNISHMENT.”

God Bless, ICXC NIKA

 

[Gorgias]

I am reasonably sure that the Church still refers to Purgatory as “temporal PUNISHMENT.”

Soooo… I give you a quote from the catechism, in which the Church calls Purgatory “purification” and contrasts it to the “punishment” of Hell, and yet…?

whatever…

 

[wiggbuggie]

I see the 40 years or wondering in the desert as a model of our life (growing up spiritually). Yes Jesus is the passover lamb, eucharist, but we spend a whole lifetime trying to avoid sin and perfecting ourselves before we enter heaven

 

[in_servitude]

I see the 40 years or wondering in the desert as a model of our life (growing up spiritually). Yes Jesus is the passover lamb, eucharist, but we spend a whole lifetime trying to avoid sin and perfecting ourselves before we enter heaven

I can see the error in trying to connect purgatory with the wandering in the desert. It makes more sense that manna is a physical model for the spiritually life sustaining Eucharist.