Purgatory Questions

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Purgatory we are told is about temporal punishment but can anyone explain what that is.

Some say it’s the collateral damage that we haven’t paid for, like the broken windows example. But that seems to me a very trivial.

An Eastern Catholic said we in the West are too fixated on legal terms such as punishment and guilt, and it’s actually about repairing the damage within ourselves that attachment to sin causes. Is that right?

Then what about unrepented/unforgiven sins?

I have follow up questions but perhaps we can start there.
 
I understand Purgatory to be that time where we come to full knowledge of the effects of the sins that we commit. We know we’re loved and forgiven but we still need to understand them properly.

It’s sometimes called a ‘cleansing fire’, but it’s not something I understand as a torment. Yes, we would perceive sadness at the things we’ve done, the way in which we conducted ourselves that caused others harm, even if we didn’t understand or realise it at the time.

I want to be pure for entry into Heaven and I want to understand my shortcomings, my effects on others and the reasons why things are wrong. It is in this cleansing that we will be able to learn to let go of our attachments to sin since we’ll have full understanding of the nature of how sin hurts ourselves, others and our relationship with God. I welcome Purgatory. I look forward to it.
 
Whenever we commit sin, we are due, at that time, some temporal punishment. It is our nature. What do I mean by our nature? What happens if you put your bare hand on a white hot stove? You burn it, right? The burn is the result of putting your hand on the hot stove because your hand was not designed to withstand that sort of heat. (I heard that human flesh begins to cook at 120 degrees. Not sure how true that is. But a hot stove is far hotter than that!)

It is also our nature, that when we sin, when we say, “No!” to God, something happens to us that requires some sort of restitution/healing. When we go to Confession, if we are sorry for our sins, we are forgiven. And, the priest gives us penance to say which removes some or all of the temporal punishment due to our sins. Like the guy with the burned hand when someone points ointment on it. It may heal it partially, or completely. If only completely, then something must be done to heal it all the way. Revelations says that no one who is not totally pure may enter heaven. So, if we have any vestiges of temporal punishment, then we have to finish the healing, so to speak.

With regard to attachment to sin, this is the way I like to explain it. Say a young man and a young woman are getting married. The priest gets to the part where they are supposed to say the “I do’s” and he turns to the man and says, “Do you take this woman to be your lawfully wedded wife, to have and to hold, in sickness and in health, for better or worse, till death to you part?” (Or similar type words, I forget.) And he immediately says, “Oh, yes. I do!” Then he turns to the young woman and says, “Do you take this man to be your lawfully wedded husband, …etc.?” And she has this blank stare on her face. Someone clears their throat and she “comes to” and says, “Oh, yes, of course. I do.” Well, the ceremony continues and finishes up. They’re in the limo going to the reception and he asks her, “What was going on when the priest asked you the part where you were supposed to say, ‘I do.’? Were you distracted?” She says, “Oh, that. Don’t worry about that. I’m your wife forever and I’ll be faithful to you for all times. It’s just that at that moment, I was remembering my former boyfriend and how great we were when we were together. But don’t worry. That didn’t work out.” How do you think that young man felt? Well, that’s kind of how God feels when we have attachment to sin.
 
(I heard that human flesh begins to cook at 120 degrees. Not sure how true that is.)
Not true at all. Iff that were true, we would die well below that point, because long before the flesh actually cooked, it would cease to hold life. But human beings live through 120* of heat quite normally in the Middle East and parts of the American SW.

ICXC NIKA
 
Can any one give me scripture about purgatory?
Hi Wimhoff,

I’m sure someone else can supply the actual verses as that is definatley not a strong point of mine, but I do tend to remember concepts. You won’t find the word purgatory in the Bible but what you will find is the need to use reason and common sense. There are parts in the new testament and old testament where we are told to pray for the dead. Jesus pretty much says that when you are in hell you are beyond any help. Also, when you are in heaven it is PERFECT and we will not need any help… So ask your self this question. Why pray for the dead, if they are either in hell or heaven; in hell, the prayers won’t help them, in heaven they don’t need our prayers…so why then must we pray for the dead? There must be a 3rd place for souls to be that can benefit from our prayers. Now take that logic and add it to the referances of purging fire and not being able to enter heaven until we are perfectly clean…and Voila, purgatory! Hope this helped. Please if anyone is interested supply the verses.
God bless,

John
 
Can any one give me scripture about purgatory?
Christ refers to the sinner who “will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come” (Matt. 12:32), suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins.

Then, of course, there is the Bible’s approval of prayers for the dead: “In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin” (2 Macc. 12:43–45). Prayers are not needed by those in heaven, and no one can help those in hell. That means some people must be in a third condition, at least temporarily. This verse so clearly illustrates the existence of purgatory that, at the time of the Reformation, Protestants had to cut the books of the Maccabees out of their Bibles in order to avoid accepting the doctrine.

Read the whole article at the following link:

catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp
 
The West teaches this stuff, too. As with all doctrines of the Church, there are many different directions from which to come at this stuff. But here’s an Eastern take from the early centuries of the Church.

St. Gregory of Nyssa recounts that his eldest sister, St. Macrina (whom he fondly calls “the Teacher”) taught this among other things on her deathbed, about Purgatory et al:

"If, then, on the one hand, the soul is unencumbered with superfluities and no trouble connected with the body presses it down, its advance towards Him Who draws it to Himself is sweet and congenial.

"But suppose, on the other hand, that it has been transfixed with the nails of propensity, so as to be held down to a habit connected with material things,—a case like that of those in the ruins caused by earthquakes, whose bodies are crushed by the mounds of rubbish – and let us imagine by way of illustration that these are not only pressed down by the weight of the ruins, but have been pierced as well with some spikes and splinters discovered with them in the rubbish. What then, would naturally be the plight of those bodies, when they were being dragged by relatives from the ruins to receive the holy rites of burial – mangled and torn entirely, disfigured in the most direful manner conceivable, with the nails beneath the heap harrowing them by the very violence necessary to pull them out?—Such I think is the plight of the soul as well when the Divine force, for God’s very love of man, drags that which belongs to Him from the ruins of the irrational and material.

"Not in hatred or revenge for a wicked life, to my thinking, does God bring upon sinners those painful dispensations; He is only claiming and drawing to Himself whatever, to please Him, came into existence. But while He for a noble end is attracting the soul to Himself, the Fountain of all Blessedness, it is the occasion necessarily to the being so attracted of a state of torture. Just as those who refine gold from the dross which it contains, not only get this base alloy to melt in the fire, but are obliged to melt the pure gold along with the alloy, and then while this last is being consumed the gold remains, so, while evil is being consumed in the purgatorial fire, the soul that is welded to this evil must inevitably be in the fire too, until the spurious material alloy is consumed and annihilated by this fire.

“If a clay of the more tenacious kind is deeply plastered round a rope, and then the end of the rope is put through a narrow hole, and then someone on the further side violently pulls it by that end, the result must be that, while the rope itself obeys the force exerted, the clay that has been plastered upon it is scraped off it with this violent pulling and is left outside the hole; and, moreover, is the cause why the rope does not run easily through the passage, but has to undergo a violent tension at the hands of the puller. In such a manner, I think, we may figure to ourselves the agonized struggle of that soul which has wrapped itself up in earthy material passions, when God is drawing it, His own one, to Himself, and the foreign matter, which has somehow grown into its substance, has to be scraped from it by main force, and so occasions it that keen intolerable anguish.”

“Then it seems,” I said, “that it is not punishment chiefly and principally that the Deity, as Judge, afflicts sinners with; but He operates, as your argument has shown, only to get the good separated from the evil and to attract it into the communion of blessedness.”

“That,” said the Teacher, "is my meaning; and also that the agony will be measured by the amount of evil there is in each individual. For it would not be reasonable to think that the man who has remained so long as we have supposed in evil known to be forbidden, and the man who has fallen only into moderate sins, should be tortured to the same amount in the judgment upon their vicious habit; but according to the quantity of material will be the longer or shorter time that that agonizing flame will be burning; that is, as long as there is fuel to feed it. In the case of the man who has acquired a heavy weight of material, the consuming fire must necessarily be very searching; but where that which the fire has to feed upon has spread less far, there the penetrating fierceness of the punishment is mitigated – so far as the subject itself, in the amount of its evil, is diminished.

“In any and every case evil must be removed out of existence, so that, as we said above, the absolutely non-existent should cease to be at all. Since it is not in its nature that evil should exist outside the will, does it not follow that when it shall be that every will rests in God, evil will be reduced to complete annihilation, owing to no receptacle being left for it?”

All this and much more, including automatons, is covered in the dialogue “On the Soul and the Resurrection”. 🙂
 
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