Purgatory

[CatherineofA]

Where are the scripture verses discussing purgatory? Thanks! Is it in the Apocrypha? Thanks!

 

[Scott_Waddell]

There are many implicit passages regarding purgatory. Try here: scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html

And try this: How to Explain Purgatory to Protestants

Scott

 

[Exporter]

Thanks to Scott Waddel , we find numerous verses in the BIBLE to purgatory.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Scott Waddell:

There are many implicit passages regarding purgatory. Try here: scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html

And try this: How to Explain Purgatory to Protestants

Scott

Hi Scott, Of course I disagree. It,s our works that are put through the fire. God Bless

 

[Beaver]

Purgatory is most obvious in the bible in the story of Israel. The Israelist did not go directly into the promise land, then spent fourty years in the desert being purified first.

The desert is purgatory and the promise land is heaven.

This is what Lent is all about, purgatory.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Beaver:

Purgatory is most obvious in the bible in the story of Israel. The Israelist did not go directly into the promise land, then spent fourty years in the desert being purified first.

The desert is purgatory and the promise land is heaven.

This is what Lent is all about, purgatory.

Hi Beaver, Yes they spent 40 years in the desert because they kept going in circles. God Bless

 

[Genesis315]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi Beaver, Yes they spent 40 years in the desert because they kept going in circles. God Bless

Do you think God had a purpose for this “going in circles?”

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Genesis315:

Do you think God had a purpose for this “going in circles?”

================================================= I believe the Lord was teaching them to be obidient to His Word. He wanted them to surrender ,submitt and yield to Him. God wanted His people to stop being rebellious and to trust in Him. When we do it our way our lives also go in circles. God Bless

 

[Scott_Waddell]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi Scott, Of course I disagree. It,s our works that are put through the fire. God Bless

What exactly do you disagree with? That there are less than many implicit passages? That the passages do not imply purgatory?

Scott

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Scott Waddell:

What exactly do you disagree with? That there are less than many implicit passages? That the passages do not imply purgatory?

Scott

Hi Scott ,that those passages do not imply purgatory.God Bless

 

[Beaver]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi Beaver, Yes they spent 40 years in the desert because they kept going in circles. God Bless

Interest statement about purgatory. Never thoght of it as a circle, but why not. A circle is a line that always comes back.

 

[Scott_Waddell]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi Scott ,that those passages do not imply purgatory.God Bless

Well, then you are just saying you interperet the passages differently. So what else is new? This is the classic absurdity of the anti-Catholic polemic. Catholics are told they don’t read Scripture, are forbidden from interpreting Scripture, and have a freakout if we don’t include a bunch of Scripture spam for our arguments. But when we do provide Scriptural support, we get accused of eisegesis.

Scott

 

[Huiou_Theou]

It,s our works that are put through the fire. God Bless

I didn’t know a verb was burnable.
So, it must be a noun.

Explain, what is this ‘thing’ which is burned up?
What is it that is lost?
and why is is that the passage 1Cor3:15 emphatically says that he HIMSELF will be saved, but only as through fire.

Hmm…

 

[adstrinity]

You know, it was this very point I was arguing with a Protestant.

I pointed out the passage about Jesus & prison & paying the last penny & he thought that was literal. Next, the 1 Pet 3:19 & he said that that is most likely Hell…reading the CCC, I think they agree with him. It is in the OT, but, how do we know that when Jesus came, that was abolished? I know the Early Church taught on this, but, really, is it in the Bible?

 

[JimG]

I don’t worry about it too much. I’ve heard that if you really don’t want to go through purgatory you don’t have to. You can walk right into heaven. Usually though, people like to clean up before entering the wedding feast.

 

[Nun_ofthe_Above]

St. Irenaeus (flavour of the month at the moment ) has a bit to say on purgatory. In summary, if we look to chaffe and grain, (grain being the greater of the two, and in this analogy equal to works,therefore, chaffe is the lesser and equivalent to our faults and failings.)then according to Irenaeus’ explaination, the chaffe will be burnt up in the fire of purification and the grain will be left as our reward; Depending on how much grain we have amassed, depends where in the great and glorious heavenly kingdom, we get to reside. 100-fold =heaven; 60-fold = Paradise and 30-fold = the City; therefore, anything less than this, would indicate Satan has a new roomie.

(From ‘Against Heresies’ Book 5, Chapt.36 by St. Irenaeus.)

Then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour(2) shall be seen according as they who see Him shall be worthy.

For anyone who has not read Irenaeus’ ‘Against Heresies’ I highly recommend you do so…such a fascinating / enlightening read!!!

Peace and love to you all

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Jim G.

Umm, not quite. A person can go directly to heaven (eg. heaven of heavens, not the sky.) if they are already clean. No one may enter unclean.

Now, a person could clean up before death …

Adstrinity,

The vision of God (eg. the Glorified Jesus qualifies) is heaven.
In essence, Peter James and John were given a glimpse of heaven in the transfiguration – although they were not eternal but in time.

The passage of 1Peter3:19 would either be heaven or hell (sheol) depending of whether or not Jesus was there in glory with the people there.

If such a place exists still, and it is not an eternal ‘place’ then it is purgatory because after suffering the imprisonment / cleansing they shall see Jesus and be in heaven.

Another possibility is that it has become the temporary waiting ‘place’ before the general Judgement where the Damned are cast into the fire.
But if that were the case, they should already be suffering torments as in the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man, and there is no proof of that.

My view is that the place/state of 1Peter 3:19 is equivalent to purgatory. ( I am not 99.99986% certain, but close enough. )

The division of ‘place/state’ is not geographical, but based on the glorified presence of God & communion.

 

[JimG]

Huiou Theou:

Jim G.

Umm, not quite. A person can go directly to heaven (eg. heaven of heavens, not the sky.) if they are already clean. No one may enter unclean.

Now, a person could clean up before death …

Actually, I really do agree with you on that. It is assumed that upon beginning to enter the presence of God, no one will wish to enter in an unclean state.

In fact, God’s very manifest presence could be seen as the burning fire of purgatory. As our soul approaches Him, any imperfections remaining are burned off in the pure fire of his love and goodness.

 

[mtr01]

Nun_ofthe_Above:

St. Irenaeus (flavour of the month at the moment ) has a bit to say on purgatory. In summary, if we look to chaffe and grain, (grain being the greater of the two, and in this analogy equal to works,therefore, chaffe is the lesser and equivalent to our faults and failings.)then according to Irenaeus’ explaination, the chaffe will be burnt up in the fire of purification and the grain will be left as our reward; Depending on how much grain we have amassed, depends where in the great and glorious heavenly kingdom, we get to reside. 100-fold =heaven; 60-fold = Paradise and 30-fold = the City; therefore, anything less than this, would indicate Satan has a new roomie.

(From ‘Against Heresies’ Book 5, Chapt.36 by St. Irenaeus.)

Then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour(2) shall be seen according as they who see Him shall be worthy.

For anyone who has not read Irenaeus’ ‘Against Heresies’ I highly recommend you do so…such a fascinating / enlightening read!!!

Peace and love to you all

This always reminds me of the parable of the cockles (Matt 13). Many people interpret it to refer to the judgement at the end of the world. However, the older interpretation is that it refers to Purgatory. If you look at the explanation in Matt 13:37-43, it’s not hard to see how it relates to purgatory. The children of the kingdom are good works, while the children of the wicked one are sins. The sins are burned up, and the “just will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father”.