Purgatory

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Jeanette

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My 82 year old mother wants to be able to explain purgatory to me sister who has left the Church - we have used all of the information on your site to no avail… her persistent question is Jesus did this once and for all. PLease help.
 
Well you sister is right and wrong. You see, so much of protestant doctrine is half truths, each declared as absolutes, many just cant see the rest. While it is true that Jesus paid the price for sin it is equally true that even when sins have been forgiven, a temporal punishment often remains. You can demonstrate this by the story of King David and Bathsheba. David is comminted adultery with Bathsheba who was the wife of Uriah. David tried to cover up his sin by having Uriah killed. Murder and Adultery. The prophet Nathan confronted David with his horrible sin. David expressed repentence, and Nathan said, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die” (2 Sam 12:13). DEATH is the eternal consequence of sin that Jesus paid the price for.
So David was forgiven, but a terrible punishment remained. Nathan told him: “Because by doing this you have made the enemies of the Lord show utter contempt, the son born to you will die” (2 Sam. 12:14). And that’s not all. God also said,

“‘Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.’ This is what the LORD says: ‘Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity upon you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.’” (2 Sam. 12:10-12).

Although David was forgiven, he was punished severly for his sins. The same holds true in the New Testament. In 1 Corinthians 11:29-30, the people were desacrating the Eucharist. God punished them by making them sick, and even killing some. Paul draws this lesson from the punishments inflicted on the Corinthian believers: “When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world” (1 Cor. 11:32). Eternal Condemnation is the Price for Sin that Jesus Paid. That needs to be repeated. God will punish us for our sins but will not send us to Hell because CHRIST paid the price for the Eternal Consequences for sin.

So there are TWO Debts. Two consequences for sin. One Eternal. One Temporal. One is paid in Eternity and the Other is paid NOW. SO Lets move on…

In Hebrews 12:5-11, the theme of temporal punishment for sin is expounded:

And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons: “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you, because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son.” Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.It is foolish to say we are not punished for our sins. Who has not felt the Chastisment of God? The Doctrine of Purgatory say that we may have to suffer some of this punishment after death. This is not referring to the eternal punishment of sin. If we are Christians, that punishment has been removed by Christ. Purgatory is for the Saved and it deals with the effects of sins that have already been forgiven. It is not a second chance after death. It is Gods purifying Love cleansing the dross from our Souls so that we may enter His presence pure and undefiled.

This IS the Work of Christ. Not instead of or in addition too.
 
Believe it or not, Orthodox who do not understand the doctrine of Purgatory ALSO use the very same arguments as Protestants!Greg
 
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Jeanette:
My 82 year old mother wants to be able to explain purgatory to me sister who has left the Church - we have used all of the information on your site to no avail… her persistent question is Jesus did this once and for all. PLease help.
If you’ve used all the information on this site there’s probably not much more you can say.

You’re sister believes that Jesus has made everything right and so there’s no more price to pay. Jesus has paid the price for sin, but he hasn’t made everything right. Good people undergo a lot of suffering in this life, even after they’ve accepted Jesus. Is this suffering useless? Not if one accepts it as his or her own personal cross. But why does anyone have a personal cross to bear if Jesus has paid the full price? St. Paul says “In my own flesh I fill up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ…” (Col: 1-24)

And perhaps there are some who should have had a personal cross in this life, but didn’t accept it; so they will have to accept it in purgatory.

JimG
 
People misunderstand the difference between the fact that Christ’s act provides forgiveness, and we must accept that forgiveness. Just as we need to do that, we need to become perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect; and I don’t know too many people personally, who have dies, who were perfect (totally free from any sinful inclination) at death. Purgatory is that final cleansing.

If that doesn’t work, quit stressing. Some people persist on “no understanding”. It is called hardness of heart. Prayer often works better than a whole lot of locution.
 
"Jesus said to him, ‘He who has bathed does not need to wash, except for his feet, but he is clean all over; and you are clean, but not every one of you.’ " (John 13:10)

Concerning this verse, St. Augustine of Hippo said:
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Augustine:
But what is this? what does it mean? and what is there in it we need to examine? The Lord says, The Truth declares that even he who has been washed has need still to wash his feet. What, my brethren, what think you of it? save that in holy baptism a man has all of him washed, not all save his feet, but every whit; and yet, while thereafter living in this human state, he cannot fail to tread on the ground with his feet. And thus our human feelings themselves, which are inseparable from our mortal life on earth, are like feet wherewith we are brought into sensible contact with human affairs; and are so in such a way, that if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. And every day, therefore, is He who intercedeth for us is washing our feet: and that we too have daily need to be washing our feet, that is ordering aright the path of our spiritual foot steps, we acknowledge even in the Lord’s prayer, when we say, “Forgive us our debts as we also forgive our debtors.” For "if,’ as it is written, “we confess our sins,” then verily is He, who washed His disciples’ feet, “faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness,” that is, even to our feet wherewith we walk on the earth.

Accordingly the Church, which Christ cleanseth with the washing of water in the word, is without spot and wrinkle, not only in the case of those who are taken away immediately after the washing of regeneration from the contagious influence of this life, and tread not the earth so as to make necessary the washing of their feet, but in those also who have experienced such mercy from the Lord as to be enabled to quit this present life even with feet that have been washed. But although the Church be also clean in respect of those who tarry on earth, because they live righteously; yet have they need to be washing their feet, because they assuredly are not without sin. For this cause is it said in the Song of Songs, “I have washed my feet; how shall I defile them?” For one so speaks when he is constrained to come to Christ, and in coming has to bring his feet into contact with the ground. But again, there is another question that arises. Is not Christ above? Hath He not ascended into heaven, and sitteth He not at the Father’s right hand? Does not the apostle expressly declare, “If ye, then, be risen with Christ, set your thoughts on those things which are above, where Christ is sitting on the right hand of God. Seek the things which are above, not things which are on earth?” How is it, then, that to get to Christ we are compelled to tread the earth, since rather our hearts ought to be turned upwards toward the Lord, that we may be enabled to dwell in His presence? You see, brethren, the shortness of the time today curtails our consideration of this question. And if you perhaps fail in some measure to do so, yet I for my part see how much clearing up it requires. And therefore I beg of you to suffer it rather to be adjourned, than to be treated now in too negligent and restricted a manner; and your expectations will not be defrauded, but only deferred. For the Lord who thus makes us your debtors, will be present to enable us also to pay our debts. (Augustine, Lectures on the Gospel of John, Tractate 56)
If we die with dirty feet, Jesus washes them in Purgatory because nothing unclean can enter Heaven (Rev 21:27)
 
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