Pushing it Aside: Change the "changes"

[Captain_America]

We live in a democracy and we live in the hope that truth will win out.

It’s pretty clear to me that the reason that the abortion issue isn’t going away, is because it was badly dealt with in 1973. And because the truth is still working toward the win.

The same is likely to be true with gay “marriage” if we stand for the truth and are willing to openly speak and act. And with the bathroom fiat/executive diktat.

Who doesn’t want to live in a democracy?

Who wants a land in which a handful of people can manage/luck into the White House and simply impose their values on the land by executive order, with no democratic process?

And who wants the courts to be the nation’s moral arbiter? This is a sign of decline.

 

[tseleehw]

This is just my opinion. I do not think things are going to get any better anytime soon, if ever. Society in the U.S. is only going to more more towards the left as time goes on. This is how it has always been all throughout history. There are exceptions on certain issues, but on the whole, things have always moved towards a more liberal society in terms of moral issues. What is considered a far-right policy today was likely considered a left or moderate-left policy many years ago. Then things liberalize and they are considered, conservative, outdated.

Take your gay “marriage” example. Sixty years ago, criminalizing homosexual acts was likely considered a reasonable proposition. People would have called you crazy for even suggesting gay marriage. Some on what would be considered the “left” back then, called for decriminalizing homosexual acts, but they still said no to gay marriage. Eventually they convinced people, and from then on, calling for criminalization of homosexual acts is considered insane (and downright unconstitutional today). Then the left started calling for gay marriage. Most people were for making homosexual acts lawful, but still against gay marriage. Then they convinced people that gay marriage was acceptable. Now it is considered insane (by leftists and the media at least) to not support gay marriage. The cycle always continues towards the left.

Abortion is a little more complicated, but I fear that it will only become more widespread and acceptable as time goes on as the Democratic party has within the last decade or so made it clear that it favors totally unrestricted abortion on demand. Conservatives have fought harder on this issue because it is easier to prove that there is direct harm being done to an individual (a mother an the child). However, the real problem, and you touched on it in your post, is that the courts are increasingly becoming more liberal, and it will only get worse if Democrats keep the Presidency, which they likely will (there may never be another Republican in the White House in our lifetimes, but that’s another topic). Even if the nation remains split on abortion or a slight majority is against it, the courts will overrule them. We’re probably one or two justices and 10 or so years on the Supreme Court from making unrestricted abortion on demand a reality.

This does not absolve us of the responsibility to spread the truth, as you stated. We must speak clearly and truthfully about morality. The problem is numbers. We will probably not be able to achieve the sheer numbers to change laws. We can only try to change as many minds as possible. I don’t mean to sound like a pessimist, but I’m only being realistic. If you have any evidence against these trends that I have observed, please tell me. But I’m only calling it like I see it.

 

[GEddie]

1. We are not a democracy; get out your old civics book.
2. We live in a land where the rich can buy their way to raw power (almost) If that’s not decline, then decline has no meaning.

ICXC NIKA

 

[djames99]

We live in a democracy and we live in the hope that truth will win out.

It’s pretty clear to me that the reason that the abortion issue isn’t going away, is because it was badly dealt with in 1973. And because the truth is still working toward the win.

The same is likely to be true with gay “marriage” if we stand for the truth and are willing to openly speak and act. And with the bathroom fiat/executive diktat.

Who doesn’t want to live in a democracy?

Who wants a land in which a handful of people can manage/luck into the White House and simply impose their values on the land by executive order, with no democratic process?

And who wants the courts to be the nation’s moral arbiter? This is a sign of decline.

The real problem is most people think that in a democracy everything is open to debate.

 

[Viki63]

Abortion is a little more complicated, but I fear that it will only become more widespread and acceptable as time goes on as the Democratic party has within the last decade or so made it clear that it favors totally unrestricted abortion on demand. Conservatives have fought harder on this issue because it is easier to prove that there is direct harm being done to an individual (a mother an the child). However, the real problem, and you touched on it in your post, is that the courts are increasingly becoming more liberal, and it will only get worse if Democrats keep the Presidency, which they likely will (there may never be another Republican in the White House in our lifetimes, but that’s another topic). Even if the nation remains split on abortion or a slight majority is against it, the courts will overrule them. We’re probably one or two justices and 10 or so years on the Supreme Court from making unrestricted abortion on demand a reality.

I think you are mistaken in this area. It seems to me that the younger generation is more and more against abortion, People born since '73 often feel survivor’s guilt, since they know that a third of their generation were killed.

This is like slavery. It seemed before the Civil War that slavery would never go away, but the truth is that the abolitionists would never go away. They knew they were right, just as we do, and we will never stop fighting to get rid of the horrendous evil of abortion.
Some great legal minds are working on the problem. After all, the original Supreme Court said that if the question of when life begins were ever determined, abortion would have to be outlawed, because unborn children are citizens of the country and entitled to its protections.

Roe vs Wade was a truly stupid ruling, and many recognize that today. It really cannot continue to stand.

.

 

[edwest2]

A few bits of information:

Jane Roe in Roe v. Wade never got an abortion. Her real name is Norman McCorvey. She is actively pro-life now.

Here is how abortion was ‘sold’ to the media and Americans at the time:

catholicnewsagency.com/resources/abortion/articles-and-addresses/an-ex-abortionist-speaks/

And it’s getting harder to get one:

content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2132761,00.html

Gay marriage was not on the radar until relatively recently because it was considered a disorder by the American Psychiatric Association until radical gay activists forced a vote in 1973 to have it declared not a disorder. Similar tactics were used to change Transgenderism into not a disorder in 2013. So the activists were overturning sodomy laws and getting the public conditioned. When same-sex marriage first appeared on the ballot some years back, it was voted down by the people - twice in California. The strategy changed to dealing with smaller numbers of people, while continuing the promotion campaign. This meant politicians, heads of corporations and even the President evolved on the issue - or risk facing a loss of their support. Millions of dollars were spent.

The Supreme Court, again, made the wrong call. The next fight for gay marriage activists was gay divorce. And gay divorce is happening. This social engineering project will end, but it will take time.

Ed

 

[tseleehw]

I think you are mistaken in this area. It seems to me that the younger generation is more and more against abortion, People born since '73 often feel survivor’s guilt, since they know that a third of their generation were killed.

This is like slavery. It seemed before the Civil War that slavery would never go away, but the truth is that the abolitionists would never go away. They knew they were right, just as we do, and we will never stop fighting to get rid of the horrendous evil of abortion.
Some great legal minds are working on the problem. After all, the original Supreme Court said that if the question of when life begins were ever determined, abortion would have to be outlawed, because unborn children are citizens of the country and entitled to its protections.

Roe vs Wade was a truly stupid ruling, and many recognize that today. It really cannot continue to stand.

.

We will see. I hope you are right. There is definitely more hope for abortion than there is for other social issues. My main fear is that the court system will continue to put a stranglehold on anti-abortion measures. It depends on politics to a great extent, mainly who controls the presidency because they appoint all of the federal judges. If someone who is pro-abortion is in the White House, expect pro-abortion judges to be appointed and for states to have a tougher time passing anti-abortion laws.

 

[Viki63]

We will see. I hope you are right. There is definitely more hope for abortion than there is for other social issues. My main fear is that the court system will continue to put a stranglehold on anti-abortion measures. It depends on politics to a great extent, mainly who controls the presidency because they appoint all of the federal judges. If someone who is pro-abortion is in the White House, expect pro-abortion judges to be appointed and for states to have a tougher time passing anti-abortion laws.

Yes, which is the only reason I can see to vote for Trump, which is a truly appalling thought. But it may be the only logical choice.

.

 

[Matilda_Bennett]

Please remember that discussions of particular political parties or figures are not allowed in the Social Justice forum. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[JoeFreedom]

We live in a democracy and we live in the hope that truth will win out.

If you are speaking about America, this is inaccurate. We live in a democratic republic. This is much different than a democracy. The founders understood a democracy allows for mob rule. If 51% of your friends decide to take your car, or your life, democracy wins…

P.S.: I do hope that truth will win. I do know it will win. There’s a book that says it will.

 

[Entwhistler]

According to Aristotle, democracy was something to be shunned. It was mob rule and despotic in a sense. The people of a democracy only had their own interests at heart. A polity on the other hand aims for the common good, and a citizen does not merely look after his own selfish interests. There is a certain spirit in a polity that is absent from a democracy. Demagogues spring up in the latter and twist the populace to abandon their reverence for the law (which should follow natural law).

Do we live in a democracy? Most definitely if we are following Aristotle’s definition.

 

[magnet]

In the U.S. government, there are many features which put a damper on control by a single political entity. That has prompted the U.S. Senate Majority Leader, Republican Mitch McConnell, to be supportive of a candidate, Donald Trump, who sounds like a fickle lunatic. It means uniting behind a single candidate for the sake of promoting a Republican agenda. However, he does not believe that a lunatic can take control of the country. This is because of the checks and balances written into the U.S. Constitution.

In Germany during the 1920’s, their constitution gave one person, their elected President, the power to choose a Chancellor (executor) for the country. The President was elected but not the Chancellor. Also, parliament (Reichstag) was a debating venue with elected representatives. It was not necessarily a place where decisions affecting the whole country were readily made. Because fringe political parties were able to make inroads into the Reichstag, their wishes were often debated on, and decisions were often impossible because of lack of support from the majority. Sometimes there were as many as ten political parties. There was also an Emergency Powers provision which allowed the Chancellor to ignore parliament, or even dissolve it, if he was unhappy with its performance. If decisions were needed on certain issues and none were forthcoming, the Chancellor was permitted to rule by decree if he chose.

In the U.S., Congress cannot be dissolved and cannot be ignored. We have, in effect, a two-party system, although sometimes a third party can exert its influence. Nevertheless, when issues are up for vote, usually the majority decides.

 

[Captain_America]

Some major changes we do not talk about:

–use of secret laws that we American citizens know nothing about

–widespread government spying on citizens (read about Snowden)

–the corruption of major political parties; small group takeovers of the major parties

–blatant lies by the president

–the use of executive diktat, ukase, executive orders/demands. . . which, incredibly, our Congress does little to oppose

–more generally, the notion that our sexual pleasure is the most definitive thing about ourselves as persons: it’s clear there are radicals who believe this (expect more political efforts to normalize creepy sex), and they also seem to have support from the Great Blasting Media Towers in Hollywood and New York

I’m a political moderate and just as a successful effort is being led against abortion, we can do the same for gay “marriage”.

 

[edwest2]

Some major changes we do not talk about:

–use of secret laws that we American citizens know nothing about

–widespread government spying on citizens (read about Snowden)

–the corruption of major political parties; small group takeovers of the major parties

–blatant lies by the president

–the use of executive diktat, ukase, executive orders/demands. . . which, incredibly, our Congress does little to oppose

–more generally, the notion that our sexual pleasure is the most definitive thing about ourselves as persons: it’s clear there are radicals who believe this (expect more political efforts to normalize creepy sex), and they also seem to have support from the Great Blasting Media Towers in Hollywood and New York

I’m a political moderate and just as a successful effort is being led against abortion, we can do the same for gay “marriage”.

Spying on citizens has been going on for decades. Mr. Snowden broke some rules. The fact that his name appeared anywhere is suspicious.

The media has been turning up the dial on deviant sexual activity gradually over the last 40 years. I lived through it. This is Part Two.

Tell us, if possible, about these secret laws.

I have zero political affiliation or personal classification in regard to being left, right, moderate, etc.

In my view, the social anarchists have found it easier to lobby politicians and judges as opposed to millions of people.

Best,
Ed