Quest. about Scrupulous

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When and who first label religious obsession as OCD and why. I am an RN so I know what OCD is but I’m also 57 and have no OCD behaviour, I know obessing about anything is OCD, but what makes one so obessive about sin and quilt. Thank You,.
 
When and who first label religious obsession as OCD and why. I am an RN so I know what OCD is but I’m also 57 and have no OCD behaviour, I know obessing about anything is OCD, but what makes one so obessive about sin and quilt. Thank You,.
If obessing about anything is OCD, I wonder if Beethoven, Chopin, and Bach were OCD because the were obessed with music.

OCD may be a problem in the eye of a beholder. My fasination with a topic may be someone else’ OCD.
 
yes some of them probably were. but I’d rather be obessed with music than the fear of God.
 
When and who first label religious obsession as OCD and why. I am an RN so I know what OCD is but I’m also 57 and have no OCD behaviour, I know obessing about anything is OCD, but what makes one so obessive about sin and quilt. Thank You,.
Sorry, what RN stands for?
Old times theology lead to OCD. Even St. Ignatius of Loyla who suffered from it and has got a book on it, described how people would think it a sin steping indvertently in 2 straws with the shape of a cross…
I knew a few guys who suffered like hell from it.
One of them was a brilliant priest who was forbidden to say mass. His mass would last 4/5 hours, each word was spelt and told 10 times so as to make sure everything was correct. In the end his shirt was soaked in sweat.
Another was forbidden to hear confessions as when someone approached with a not so usual sin he would shout: “Oh! My God! This world is lost! So many sins! Everybody is going to hell!” It was impossible. Once, I saw him kneeling in front of the altar chen crossing the Church. He returned back 13 times kneeling over and over so as to make sure the kneeling was do right.

They suffered horrors, for in the old times, everything was a mortal sin and you started from the startpoint that you were in hell. From there on, everything that would come to the net would be all right…
 
When and who first label religious obsession as OCD and why. I am an RN so I know what OCD is but I’m also 57 and have no OCD behaviour, I know obessing about anything is OCD, but what makes one so obessive about sin and quilt. Thank You,.
I’m not a psychologist, but I would say when it interferes in your normal life then it’s OCD. Whether it be checking locks repeatedly, being unable to leave the home because you have to go back and check the oven – they interfere in your ability to function.

I don’t think being scrupulous is OCD, but like anything else in can be carried into obsession where you think that everything is a sin and you are compelled to confess – see sin – confess. I would imagine that it can be taken too far so that interferes in your ability to discern and function in your interactions with others – not you specifically but a general “you.”

It would be different for everyone. I don’t think it’s a blanket diagnosis. One might not recognize it in themselves, or may, but the inability to break the cycle of fear is obsession. I think you would recognize it when it occurs in others.
 
Ya know I think I’ve had this for years, I quit going to Church as soon as I graduated from high school. I felt such the fear of God, as such a bad person just seeing everything I did wrong, I worried about going to hell and was scared , about being bad. Never being good enough.

I remember the nuns and was scard of them, and scared of going to confession.

I remember not really knowing what was going on at Mass, said in Latin, and kneeling for hours and standing in line, we went to a huge Cathedral, It all scared me.

of course as I got into my teens I’d put up a fuss having to go to Church. I didn’t want to, but parents made me. We went on and off then as my Dad was out of town drving truck and Mom didn’t drive and we lived in country.

Oh well I’d fast foward but thats enough, but lets just say I did get to the point in my life,
where I started reading the Bible at home, and more I read it the more I felt God was a mericful loving God and very forgiving.

Now I’m not saying anthing Catholic here ok, but the funny thing is since reading and finding this board, its all coming back to me, and I read some posts now that make me feel awful again now. not saying anyone is awful here, but well I’m thinking everything is a sin now, and how rotten I am once again.
 
Ya know I think I’ve had this for years, I quit going to Church as soon as I graduated from high school. I felt such the fear of God, as such a bad person just seeing everything I did wrong, I worried about going to hell and was scared , about being bad. Never being good enough.

I remember the nuns and was scard of them, and scared of going to confession.

I remember not really knowing what was going on at Mass, said in Latin, and kneeling for hours and standing in line, we went to a huge Cathedral, It all scared me.

of course as I got into my teens I’d put up a fuss having to go to Church. I didn’t want to, but parents made me. We went on and off then as my Dad was out of town drving truck and Mom didn’t drive and we lived in country.

Oh well I’d fast foward but thats enough, but lets just say I did get to the point in my life,
where I started reading the Bible at home, and more I read it the more I felt God was a mericful loving God and very forgiving.

Now I’m not saying anthing Catholic here ok, but the funny thing is since reading and finding this board, its all coming back to me, and I read some posts now that make me feel awful again now. not saying anyone is awful here, but well I’m thinking everything is a sin now, and how rotten I am once again.
I think I understand what you are saying, and it is, in fact, not wrong in my opinion. However, I must ask, don’t you think there is a reason you are feeling bad by being confronted other than the fault of the posts/teachings here?

Could it be that there are some unresolved issues you have with God, maybe a conviction of the Holy Spirit? Maybe a process of coming to that horrible, yet beautiful, place of laying it all at His feet and saying, " I can’t do this on my own, I need you". Horrible for the pain leading to it, but beautiful for the weight that is lifted.

And of course, while we should go and sin no more, it is not out of the realistic expectation to sin again. We are human after all. Otherwise, the Sacraments would be a one shot deal, I suppose.

Remember, even Saints have said for centuries:

Latin:
"Confiteor Deo omnipotenti, et vobis fratres, quia peccavi nimis cogitatione, verbo opere et omissione:** mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. **Ideo precor beatam Mariam semper Virginem, omnes angelos et Sanctos, et vobis fratres, orare pro me ad Dominum Deum nostrum. Amen. "
English:
“I confess to almighty God
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done
and in what I have failed to do,
[All strike their breast]
through my fault, through my fault,
through my most grievous fault;

therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin,
all the Angels and Saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.”
My personal struggle, coming from Protestantism, is understanding doctrines regarding Mary. Purgatory was an easy doctrine to accept, as were most other things. Mary though, and even prayer for intercession of Saints, I admit, I get sporadically uncomfortable with. I don’t “refuse” to pray for the intercession of the Blessed Virgin, by no means and never. However, I do pray that God will reveal the understanding to me that I need or at least take the burden of Protestant guilt regarding such things from my heart. I often throw in prayers for intercession of Saints as a sidebar, but it makes me uncomfortable and then I feel bad about the discomfort because I know it’s wrong. This may or may not sound familiar.

I know it’s not idolatry, but ya spend 27 years of your 28 years being told X regarding Z… accepting Z, outside of X’s lies, often requires the transitional “Y”(Why?).

Re-read the various epistles of St. Paul. His struggles are evident, self-admittedly so. Granted, they are not the struggles you face, but the man is a Saint. He trusted God though, and I’d say he did a fine job (though who am I to judge? 😉 )

Read the biography of any Saint. They all struggled with certain things. I haven’t read of any standing up on a soapbox and saying, “Hey guys, I did it. I get and understand everything, go me”. Quite the opposite in fact. But all had to start from a place of self-denial and true seeking.

The easiest transition of this which can be easily read about is St. Augustine.

You’re in the prayers of many, keep the faith and grow in it.
 
Thank you for being so nice. No I not going to let it happen to me again as I said I have come to terms with it, reading the Bible which I wish I had done as a youngster. But after reading some posts here I can see the same thing in some others of the way I use to feel in my young years., of how I felt.

I have come to terms with that, and I have never been angry with God, although for many years I did have much fear of him. But now I know he is a loving and forgiving God with lots of mercy for us. I really never left God, he has always been there for me in my life.

I feel the Catholic Church has changed a lot and in many ways for the better. I still go to confession a couple times a year but being disable I watch Mass on TV. I like to see they encourage Bible Study now and reading the Bible.

But I’m not going to get into this head trip anymore, its nothing I do to be saved, not 100 rosaries a day will save me, but its because I love Jesus, and trust in him , I want to
live a good life, not because of any rules or need to’s or shoulds.

Oh about Mary, I feel she is right up there with Jesus being his Mother, I’m sure she is very high ranking in heaven and yes I pray the rosary, not daily. I have read some of the Saints, but I do not pray to them, that feels funny to me to pray to them for some reason.

I believe in purgatory, as we all die (name removed by moderator)ure, and need to be cleansed, I’ll probably be there for a long time, Who knows.

I also think its wonderful there are many young people here, and it sounds like they are very knowledgable about the Church, more so than me, being away from it for so long, saying that I do see myself in some members and I know how that feels, not good.

I so hope you find your home in the Catholic Church, I have never been to another so not sure what they are like although I do listen to a couple Prostestant Pastors on Tv that I like. So I guess what is that they say on EWTN, Welcome Home!!!
 
I think Pfaffenhofen describes it well.
I know - I suffer scrupulosity and have for many years. What’s more, I’m not sure if it wasn’t on this web site that I read that OCD was connected to scrupulosity (not sure though) - and it made sense, since I was going through OCD issues, too.

Scrupulosity, is horrible. It makes sin out of things that aren’t. The OCD in it has you praying and re-praying prayers to the point of distraction - not to mention interrupting another activity to pray a certain way - and you don’t resume original activity until you get the prayer (and quantity thereof, as Pfaffenhofen described) RIGHT. It’s horrible. It’s a cross. It’s draining emotionally - not to mention, people think you’re nuts if you can’t keep it concealed, and you begin to think the same of yourself. I know. I’m suffering from it. But it hasn’t made me holier.
 
I don’t feel I suffer from it anymore, and I don’t want to start again , but I think I did in my young years and on and off,

and your so right,it doesn’t make one holier, just the opposite really .🙂

I hope your healed of it.
 
I think Pfaffenhofen describes it well.
I know - I suffer scrupulosity and have for many years. What’s more, I’m not sure if it wasn’t on this web site that I read that OCD was connected to scrupulosity (not sure though) - and it made sense, since I was going through OCD issues, too.

Scrupulosity, is horrible. It makes sin out of things that aren’t. The OCD in it has you praying and re-praying prayers to the point of distraction - not to mention interrupting another activity to pray a certain way - and you don’t resume original activity until you get the prayer (and quantity thereof, as Pfaffenhofen described) RIGHT. It’s horrible. It’s a cross. It’s draining emotionally - not to mention, people think you’re nuts if you can’t keep it concealed, and you begin to think the same of yourself. I know. I’m suffering from it. But it hasn’t made me holier.
Maybe there is nothing wrong with being scrupulous in that it is similar to being careful. People have a desire to do things the right way. In religion they want to please God and worry about not pleasing Him so they go over and over again everything they do and start to blame themselves for things they imagine are wrong, but really are not wrong.

This becomes a mental illness.

It also is rooted in worry and fear, which Jesus commands us not to do, so that part of it is sinful. When we are afraid we disobey God. Our faith tells us God is merciful and that if we hope to be saved we have to trust in God, trust in His mercy and love for us.

So we are told for example that being a miser is sinful, because it is a manifestation of failing to trust God to provide for us. It is worrying about not having enough tomorrow so we do not use the good things God provides today. We hoard them in fear of what the future will bring. It prevents us from being charitable and caring for others by sharing our wealth.

Similary the religiously scrupulous fail to trust God, but in a different way. They see themselves, what they do, as controlling the dispensation of God’s mercy and love. If they say a prayer and forget a word, or say it too quickly or slowly, that their action prevents God from being merciful.

The problem is not uniquely Catholic. During the time of Jesus the religious Jews were scrupulous and Jesus condemned them for it. They actually debated things like; If a tailor went out of his house before sundown on the sabbath and had a needle (tool of tradte) in his pocket, but did not know it and did not get home until after dark, is this a sin.

I read recently that in Pakistan a Muslim man was convicted and punished for profaning the name of the prophet. Someone whose name was Muhamed gave him his business card and the man threw it away.

In Saudi Arabia over 180 girls in a dormitory died in a fire. They could have been rescued, but they would have been brought out at night in their pajamas.

If constant extreme worry and fear about pleasing God hurts us it is wrong, because God wills our good, but there is also an opposite extreme. If people do whatever they want to do not caring at all how it impacts their relationship with God that also destroys their lives.

If being a miser is wrong it is also wrong to be wasteful. Virtue is often a middle place in between two extremes. Temperance is not being a teetotaller. It is not getting drunk. We see gluttony and obesity on one side and anorexia on the other. Anorexia does not mean fasting is wrong. It means destroying yourself by deliberate starvation is wrong.

I have a friend who was scrupulous to the point of being suicidal. He failed to trust in God’s mercy and thought obtaining it depended on him doing imaginary things to perfection and blamed himself for imaginary sins.
 
Your right its not just Catholics from what I read, but more prevalent among Catholics, and like me being a senior rather new to this message board never even heard of it before or knew anything about it.

So I wonder how many people have it, and I think they label and blame everything on OCD, and well I don’t think I had or ever had OCD.

Mine went away after I began reading the Bible in the early 90’s when my opinion of what God is like changed into a more merciful God than one with a huge stick(ha ha)

It not a good way to be, worried and fretful about what we may of done or failed to do and feel quilty about everything, even after confessing and repenting.

I think one needs to confess, repent and keep looking out the front windshield of the car instead of in the rear view mirror, so to speak, but the plow to the field and don’t look back.
 
Your right its not just Catholics from what I read, but more prevalent among Catholics, and like me being a senior rather new to this message board never even heard of it before or knew anything about it.

So I wonder how many people have it, and I think they label and blame everything on OCD, and well I don’t think I had or ever had OCD.

Mine went away after I began reading the Bible in the early 90’s when my opinion of what God is like changed into a more merciful God than one with a huge stick(ha ha)

It not a good way to be, worried and fretful about what we may of done or failed to do and feel quilty about everything, even after confessing and repenting.

I think one needs to confess, repent and keep looking out the front windshield of the car instead of in the rear view mirror, so to speak, but the plow to the field and don’t look back.
That is true, but also know that if we fall again mercy is always there.
 
I think “grandfather”'s post says it very well.
Combination of mental illness (i.e. OCD) and trying to please God. But with the scrupulous person, it’s almost as though the person has imposed upon themselves quiet, unwritten rules - that if a prayer isn’t said this way or that way, something will happen - like an “or else”. They almost bring it upon themselves.

Well expressed, ‘grandfather’.
 
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