Question about dating a non-Catholic divorcee

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habu16

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Hi folks,

I’m a practicing Catholic and need some advice with my current relationship.

I’m a swim coach and coach a Masters (adult) swim team. Over the last two years, I’ve made very close friendships with a number of women on the team, many of whom are married. I was raised the youngest of four children with three older sisters and have always had a very easy time of establishing close friendships with women. Anyways, I’ve never done anything inappropriate with any of my married friends, although the apportunity has presented itself a few times over that time period. One of the women in particular went through a difficult divorce last year and I was the source of a lot of her support during that time.

She is not a Catholic, her husband was Jewish, and they were married in a civil ceremony. They were divorced last year and after a few months of me providing support and a sympathetic ear post-divorce, she revealed that she was interested in me. I also have developed feelings for her during all the post-divorce talking and time we’ve spent together. We’ve gone on three dates over the last couple of weeks and they’ve gone wonderfully. My feelings for her are quite strong for her, and she seems to reciprocate.

Now, my question. As neither she nor her spouse are Catholic (although she was baptised as a Christian) and they had a civil wedding, is she still married in the eyes of the Church? Although I really, really like her and definitely want to continue our relationship, I will not proceed if we’re committing sin. Would she need to obtain an annulment before I can continue to date her? I’ve read several threads about a Catholic being divorced and/or having been sacramentally married, but I’m not sure if she’s still married in the eyes of the Church or if she’s single and available.

The issue has given me a fair amount of grief over the last few weeks, so I’d appreciate any help y’all could give me.

Thanks!
 
Unless either she or her husband were Catholic at the time, the fact that their marriage was a civil one has no bearing on its validity. Only Catholics are required to marry in the Church.

Short answer: yes, she is considered married and will remain so unless and until she receives a declaration of nullity or her husband dies.
 
habu16 said:
As neither she nor her spouse are Catholic (although she was baptised as a Christian) and they had a civil wedding, is she still married in the eyes of the Church?
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The are considered married by the Catholic Church. Only Catholics are required to follow Canon Law.
Would she need to obtain an annulment before I can continue to date her? I’ve read several threads about a Catholic being divorced and/or having been sacramentally married, but I’m not sure if she’s still married in the eyes of the Church or if she’s single and available.
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The Church considers the marriage valid; however, their marriage is not a sacrament. A valid marriage is only sacramental when it is between baptized parties. The husband, being Jewish, is not baptized and therefore the marriage is not sacramental.

Since the marriage is not sacramental, the marriage has the potential of being dissolved, which is different from an annulment. She should speak to the appropriate pastor to discuss the situation.
 
You should talk to your pastor about the appropriateness of dating a divorcee.

She would need to submit her prior marriage to the Catholic marriage tribunal to make a determination of validity. It might also be possible to seek a dissolution of the bond since her ex husband was not baptized.
 
habu16 said:
Hi folks,

I’m a practicing Catholic and need some advice with my current relationship.

I’m a swim coach and coach a Masters (adult) swim team. Over the last two years, I’ve made very close friendships with a number of women on the team, many of whom are married. I was raised the youngest of four children with three older sisters and have always had a very easy time of establishing close friendships with women. Anyways, I’ve never done anything inappropriate with any of my married friends, although the apportunity has presented itself a few times over that time period. One of the women in particular went through a difficult divorce last year and I was the source of a lot of her support during that time.

She is not a Catholic, her husband was Jewish, and they were married in a civil ceremony. They were divorced last year and after a few months of me providing support and a sympathetic ear post-divorce, she revealed that she was interested in me. I also have developed feelings for her during all the post-divorce talking and time we’ve spent together. We’ve gone on three dates over the last couple of weeks and they’ve gone wonderfully. My feelings for her are quite strong for her, and she seems to reciprocate.

Now, my question. As neither she nor her spouse are Catholic (although she was baptised as a Christian) and they had a civil wedding, is she still married in the eyes of the Church? Although I really, really like her and definitely want to continue our relationship, I will not proceed if we’re committing sin. Would she need to obtain an annulment before I can continue to date her? I’ve read several threads about a Catholic being divorced and/or having been sacramentally married, but I’m not sure if she’s still married in the eyes of the Church or if she’s single and available.

The issue has given me a fair amount of grief over the last few weeks, so I’d appreciate any help y’all could give me.

Thanks!
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Why are you getting into this mess??? You have two strikes against you right off. Non Catholic and married. Pal, you deserve every bit of grief you get. 🤷
 
Her marriage can be annulled and you could married Catholic.

But personally, i would keep my distance because even though she married civil, she promised to God to be with him for ever. I would be concern about adultery.

Anyway, this is your call and if i was you, i would pray deeply, say the rosary and ask God that if he doesn’t bless this union to set you free from the attraction. Consult with a priest.

All the best to you!
 
However if the Church annuls it than it is agreed on earth AND in Heaven, forever, infallibly. And then you would be free to marry and to receive the Heavenly Sacrament of Marriage. So that’s the way that goes.

Next question is, would you date someone you would not consider marrying? Would you consider marrying someone who never wanted to become Catholic? Who might find your needing to go to Mass on Sunday kind of a drag as life gets more complicated? Who cannot relate to you when your spirituality deepens, particularly when you have children, or when you share life-altering events?

Maybe that would be a topic for conversation soon. Would she ever consider learning about the Catholic faith?
 
Eliza10 said:
However if the Church annuls it than it is agreed on earth AND in Heaven, forever, infallibly. And then you would be free to marry and to receive the Heavenly Sacrament of Marriage. So that’s the way that goes.
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I am not aware that decrees of nullity are known to be infallible. They are issued with a high degree of certainty: I believe that the initial decision, if found to be null, is always appealed and investigated by a secondary tribunal that then issues the final decision. But even this is a fallible determination by human beings. The case could be appealed to Rome if need be. But nowhere in the chain of investigation will you find any infallible decisions being possible.
 
I researched myself this issue and consulted with THREE priests. I personally decided not to pursue to ask for annulment because, in my heart, i don’t feel it is right to marry someone that is divorce even though they weren’t Catholic and marry again this person with the Catholic church.

All the best!
 
Thanks, everyone!

I’ve done a lot of soul searching about her and any potential relationship we could have ever since I started developing feelings for her a few months ago.

I can absolutely see us getting married in the future–this isn’t a casual dating experiment for either of us. I will seek advice from my parish priest and also see if she will seek an annulment.

Thanks again for y’all’s help!
 
habu16 said:
Thanks, everyone!

I’ve done a lot of soul searching about her and any potential relationship we could have ever since I started developing feelings for her a few months ago.

I can absolutely see us getting married in the future–this isn’t a casual dating experiment for either of us. I will seek advice from my parish priest and also see if she will seek an annulment.

Thanks again for y’all’s help!
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I am happy for you, i wish you all the best and many blessings. May God bless both of you with happiness in growing closer to him always. Amen
 
Elizium23 said:
I am not aware that decrees of nullity are known to be infallible. They are issued with a high degree of certainty: I believe that the initial decision, if found to be null, is always appealed and investigated by a secondary tribunal that then issues the final decision. But even this is a fallible determination by human beings. The case could be appealed to Rome if need be. But nowhere in the chain of investigation will you find any infallible decisions being possible.
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This poster is right. Infallibility is limited to the Pope making the most authoritative pronouncements about faith or morals in very strict circumstances. Ecclesiastic courts and their judgements don’t have that infallibility. The judgement is purely declarative and can indeed be issued in error. A nullity decree based on fraud or error, or just a badly judged case, does not unmake a marriage. This is actually what makes a nullity decree different from divorce.

It’s possible to be misled by the prevalent but incorrect use of the term “annulment” in common parlance. An “annulment” basically means cancellation. Like you annul a ticket. But ecclesiastic courts judging marital cases in the Catholic Church issue declarations of nullity properly speaking.

The judges are required to reach the level of moral certainty (it’s called moral because it isn’t mathematical certainty, like in 1+1=2, but relies on examining evidence and being persuaded), which is practically equivalent to “beyond a reasonable doubt” in America’s criminal courts. The plaintiff’s case must defeat powerful presumptions–first of all marriages are presumed to be valid, then people’s words are presumed to conform to their mind, people are presumed to be free to marry (rather than being incapable) and so on. Thus it’s far more likely that the Tribunal refuses to declare an invalid marriage invalid because the evidence isn’t persuasive enough than that the Tribunal declares a valid marriage null. However, that can happen.

When Rome overturns a local court, it typically involves disagreement over the interpretation of canon law grounded in theological perceptions of marriage and/or some psychological matters and some courts are (from Rome’s POV) misguided by pity and bend the rules to “help” people. Supposing that Rome is right–which is more likely but not certain–that logically means that similar cases similarly judged but not appealed to Rome are likely to be erroneous declarations of nullity (and so the marriages may be valid). But it can also happen that a witness lies, a judge misses or misunderstands something in the record.
 
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