Question about Our Lady

[PraiseChrist]

Hello,

Is it true that Mary the Mother of God is holier than all the angels and saints combined? Is this because of the merits of Jesus? Now finding more about the sanctity of Mary…pretty good info

God bless,

Thank you

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Here’s a link that discusses this idea.

 

[wllmjoseph]

Here’s a link that discusses this idea.

In reading the article I found it very informative and helpful. What stood out for me was the statement. “One theological current affirms that Our Lady has - and had as soon as she was immaculately conceived - more virtue than any other saint, and also more virtue than all the other saints together.” None of the other saints were conceived without the stain of Original Sin and therefore Blessed Mother would have more virtue than all the other saints together. Not to mention that all of the saints of both the Eastern and Western Church shared a devotion to Blessed Mother as the Theotokus.

The initial post posed the question if Blessed Mother had a greater virtue than all of the saints and angels together. The article did not compare Blessed Mother’s virtue to that of the angels. Is Blessed Mother’s virtue greater than the saints and **angels **combined?

The reason I ask if that in the Gospel of Luke (7:28 ) Jesus states “I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.” How does this scripture apply to Blessed Mother? Is her virtue greater that the angels because she was Immaculately Conceived? Thank you.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

From a Byzantine hymn:
It is truly meet to bless you, O Theotokos, ever-blessed and most pure, and the Mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and more glorious beyond compare than the Seraphim, without defilement you gave birth to God the Word. True Theotokos we magnify you!

Her being conceived without original sin is not what makes her holier than everyone else. Eve, too, was created without original sin. The Blessed Virgin was conceived “full of grace,” and throughout her life cooperated with, and grew in, that grace.

Some writers are very effusive in their praise of our Lady, and perhaps exaggerate some of her attributes, but I think it is very sound to assert that her sanctity is above the angels. The great theologian Joseph Pohle writes:
No doubt the sanctity of the Blessed Virgin, while vastly inferior to the created sanctity of Christ, surpasses that of the most glorious seraph and the greatest Saints. … The fulness of grace enjoyed by our Blessed Mother was not complete and perfect at the outset, but developed gradually, reaching its climax at the moment of her death. … Some few theologians hold that Mary attained to perfection of grace … when she conceived her Divine Son. But this theory entails an inadmissible corollary, namely, that she received no increase of sanctifying grace after the Incarnation, neither … during the descent of the Holy Ghost … nor … by the merits of her virtuous life. (Dogmatic Treatise on the Blessed Virgin, p. 28, 34)

 

[E_7]

Hello,

Is it true that Mary the Mother of God is holier than all the angels and saints combined? Is this because of the merits of Jesus? Now finding more about the sanctity of Mary…pretty good info

God bless,

Thank you

Well she is the Queen of Angels and the Queen of Saints, Queen of Patriarchs and Queen of Prophets.

 

[wllmjoseph]

From a Byzantine hymn:
It is truly meet to bless you, O Theotokos, ever-blessed and most pure, and the Mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and more glorious beyond compare than the Seraphim, without defilement you gave birth to God the Word. True Theotokos we magnify you!

Her being conceived without original sin is not what makes her holier than everyone else. Eve, too, was created without original sin. The Blessed Virgin was conceived “full of grace,” and throughout her life cooperated with, and grew in, that grace.

Some writers are very effusive in their praise of our Lady, and perhaps exaggerate some of her attributes, but I think it is very sound to assert that her sanctity is above the angels. The great theologian Joseph Pohle writes:
No doubt the sanctity of the Blessed Virgin, while vastly inferior to the created sanctity of Christ, surpasses that of the most glorious seraph and the greatest Saints. … The fulness of grace enjoyed by our Blessed Mother was not complete and perfect at the outset, but developed gradually, reaching its climax at the moment of her death. … Some few theologians hold that Mary attained to perfection of grace … when she conceived her Divine Son. But this theory entails an inadmissible corollary, namely, that she received no increase of sanctifying grace after the Incarnation, neither … during the descent of the Holy Ghost … nor … by the merits of her virtuous life. (Dogmatic Treatise on the Blessed Virgin, p. 28, 34)

Awesome explanation! Thank you!

 

[wllmjoseph]

Well she is the Queen of Angels and the Queen of Saints, Queen of Patriarchs and Queen of Prophets.

So true! You can not argue with that logic. Thanks!

 

[Todd977]

The initial post posed the question if Blessed Mother had a greater virtue than all of the saints and angels together. The article did not compare Blessed Mother’s virtue to that of the angels. Is Blessed Mother’s virtue greater than the saints and **angels **combined?

I think because of their more intimate association with the Trinity, because of their divinization or theosis, every human being in heaven, including the Virgin Mary, is holier than all the angels combined. Remember, in baptism we become the adopted children of God, members of the mystical body of the Son, and temples of the Holy Spirit, and in heaven we will sit with Christ on his throne and reign with him. Angels, on the other hand, are simply servants in God’s kingdom.

 

[wllmjoseph]

I think because of their more intimate association with the Trinity, because of their divinization or theosis, every human being in heaven, including the Virgin Mary, is holier than all the angels combined. Remember, in baptism we become the adopted children of God, members of the mystical body of the Son, and temples of the Holy Spirit, and in heaven we will sit with Christ on his throne and reign with him. Angels, on the other hand, are simply servants in God’s kingdom.

Thank you.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

I think because of their more intimate association with the Trinity, because of their divinization or theosis, every human being in heaven, including the Virgin Mary, is holier than all the angels combined. …

I don’t know a lot about this, but it is my understanding that the angels, too, receive sanctifying grace, the indwelling of the Blessed Trinity, the infused virtues and the gifts of the Holy Ghost. According to Fr. John Hardon, S.J., that is the opinion of most theologians (see Grace Considered Extensively, Ch. III). And St. Thomas Aquinas held (S.T. I, Q. 62) that grace was bestowed on them in proportion to their nature (e.g. Seraphim would have more grace than Cherubim, etc.).

On what grounds, then, do we say that men generally have greater sanctity than angels, let alone one man vs. all angels combined, save Christ and His Mother? I’m not saying it’s wrong, just asking.

 

[sirach2v4]

You wanted a Catholic answer, that’s why you’re on this website. But, this is a non-Catholic answer to your question:

I just read a book called Surprised by Hope by Bishop NT Wright of the church of England.

Now NT Wright and this book were recommended by Dr. David Anders who hosts the EWTN radio program Called to Communion.

The book covers one subject well, and that is the Resurrection of Christ and the general resurrection of the dead.

But, quite a lot of the book is non-catholic and anti-Catholic. Now, here’s his answer:

For some reason, he brought up this very subject that is posed by the OP, and his answer is NO, there is no saint greater than any other, as he explains that such is not suggested by scripture.

So, we have so far answers on a scale of zero to 100% that Mary is greater than all the saints put together. My question is: What could that possibly mean? What difference could that possible make, to Mary, for starters. Is she vain? Would this “go to her (heavenly) head”? What difference would this make to anyone else? Are we jealous of Mary?

I think people suggest the 100% answer because of piety, but piety is not fact, is it? Jesus says his Father has prepared a place for those who are to sit at his right hand and at his left. Jesus gave the general non-specific answer. Why do we need to cross that line?

a parallel intractable question is, is Mother Angelica’s 8-foot tall monstrance in Hanceville holier than anybody else’s 20-in tall monstrance? I’m not a theologian, but my theological guess is, no.

Adam and Eve were also created without original sin. They committed only one sin, that scripture records. Are they holier than the rest of us?

 

[JMM1957]

You wanted a Catholic answer, that’s why you’re on this website. But, this is a non-Catholic answer to your question:

I just read a book called Surprised by Hope by Bishop NT Wright of the church of England.

Now NT Wright and this book were recommended by Dr. David Anders who hosts the EWTN radio program Called to Communion.

The book covers one subject well, and that is the Resurrection of Christ and the general resurrection of the dead.

But, quite a lot of the book is non-catholic and anti-Catholic. Now, here’s his answer:

For some reason, he brought up this very subject that is posed by the OP, and his answer is NO, there is no saint greater than any other, as he explains that such is not suggested by scripture.

So, we have so far answers on a scale of zero to 100% that Mary is greater than all the saints put together. My question is: What could that possibly mean? What difference could that possible make, to Mary, for starters. Is she vain? Would this “go to her (heavenly) head”? What difference would this make to anyone else? Are we jealous of Mary?

I think people suggest the 100% answer because of piety, but piety is not fact, is it? Jesus says his Father has prepared a place for those who are to sit at his right hand and at his left. Jesus gave the general non-specific answer. Why do we need to cross that line?

a parallel intractable question is, is Mother Angelica’s 8-foot tall monstrance in Hanceville holier than anybody else’s 20-in tall monstrance? I’m not a theologian, but my theological guess is, no.

Adam and Eve were also created without original sin. They committed only one sin, that scripture records. Are they holier than the rest of us?

I like your answer, it is along the lines of what I was thinking also. IMO, its not an issue that we need to dwell on.

 

[PraiseChrist]

From a Byzantine hymn:
It is truly meet to bless you, O Theotokos, ever-blessed and most pure, and the Mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and more glorious beyond compare than the Seraphim, without defilement you gave birth to God the Word. True Theotokos we magnify you!

Her being conceived without original sin is not what makes her holier than everyone else. Eve, too, was created without original sin. The Blessed Virgin was conceived “full of grace,” and throughout her life cooperated with, and grew in, that grace.

Some writers are very effusive in their praise of our Lady, and perhaps exaggerate some of her attributes, but I think it is very sound to assert that her sanctity is above the angels. The great theologian Joseph Pohle writes:
No doubt the sanctity of the Blessed Virgin, while vastly inferior to the created sanctity of Christ, surpasses that of the most glorious seraph and the greatest Saints. … The fulness of grace enjoyed by our Blessed Mother was not complete and perfect at the outset, but developed gradually, reaching its climax at the moment of her death. … Some few theologians hold that Mary attained to perfection of grace … when she conceived her Divine Son. But this theory entails an inadmissible corollary, namely, that she received no increase of sanctifying grace after the Incarnation, neither … during the descent of the Holy Ghost … nor … by the merits of her virtuous life. (Dogmatic Treatise on the Blessed Virgin, p. 28, 34)

Very good answer, thanks.

 

[PraiseChrist]

You wanted a Catholic answer, that’s why you’re on this website. But, this is a non-Catholic answer to your question:

I just read a book called Surprised by Hope by Bishop NT Wright of the church of England.

Now NT Wright and this book were recommended by Dr. David Anders who hosts the EWTN radio program Called to Communion.

The book covers one subject well, and that is the Resurrection of Christ and the general resurrection of the dead.

But, quite a lot of the book is non-catholic and anti-Catholic. Now, here’s his answer:

For some reason, he brought up this very subject that is posed by the OP, and his answer is NO, there is no saint greater than any other, as he explains that such is not suggested by scripture.

So, we have so far answers on a scale of zero to 100% that Mary is greater than all the saints put together. My question is: What could that possibly mean? What difference could that possible make, to Mary, for starters. Is she vain? Would this “go to her (heavenly) head”? What difference would this make to anyone else? Are we jealous of Mary?

I think people suggest the 100% answer because of piety, but piety is not fact, is it? Jesus says his Father has prepared a place for those who are to sit at his right hand and at his left. Jesus gave the general non-specific answer. Why do we need to cross that line?

a parallel intractable question is, is Mother Angelica’s 8-foot tall monstrance in Hanceville holier than anybody else’s 20-in tall monstrance? I’m not a theologian, but my theological guess is, no.

Adam and Eve were also created without original sin. They committed only one sin, that scripture records. Are they holier than the rest of us?

Tim Staples, a former protestant, gives a great defense of Mary from scripture, that helps distinguish her above the other saints (and angels):

catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/the-immaculate-conception-in-scripture

catholic.com/tracts/immaculate-conception-and-assumption

[41] And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: [42] And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. [43] And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? [44] For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. [45] And blessed art thou that hast believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoken to thee by the Lord.

^^This quote is an addition, that also helps (Luke 1:41-45)

 

[porthos11]

I don’t know a lot about this, but it is my understanding that the angels, too, receive sanctifying grace, the indwelling of the Blessed Trinity, the infused virtues and the gifts of the Holy Ghost. According to Fr. John Hardon, S.J., that is the opinion of most theologians (see Grace Considered Extensively, Ch. III). And St. Thomas Aquinas held (S.T. I, Q. 62) that grace was bestowed on them in proportion to their nature (e.g. Seraphim would have more grace than Cherubim, etc.).

On what grounds, then, do we say that men generally have greater sanctity than angels, let alone one man vs. all angels combined, save Christ and His Mother? I’m not saying it’s wrong, just asking.

The fact that God took upon himself a human nature and gave us the grace of divine indwelling, i.e. a share in the divine nature itself by virtue of Christ’s incarnation and action.

Angels may have sanctifying grace, but God did not take on an angelic nature; he took a human nature, and as such, there is humanity in the Godhead. Angels cannot make that claim.