Question about prayer

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Hi, I am attending RCIA classes and have a question about something that was said tonight by the Priest teaching the class.

We were talking about prayer and he said that you pray God’s will be done. I said, I have been told that you shouldn’t really pray God’s will be done because you can change God’s mind through prayer. He said NO, you can never change God’s mind, God already has a plan

So, is this correct? We can’t change God’s mind through prayer? If not, then why do we pray and why do we ask the saints and other people to pray for us?

Thanks,
Tracie
 
tracie001 said:
Hi, I am attending RCIA classes and have a question about something that was said tonight by the Priest teaching the class.

We were talking about prayer and he said that you pray God’s will be done. I said, I have been told that you shouldn’t really pray God’s will be done because you can change God’s mind through prayer. He said NO, you can never change God’s mind, God already has a plan

So, is this correct? We can’t change God’s mind through prayer? If not, then why do we pray and why do we ask the saints and other people to pray for us?

Thanks,
Tracie
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Whoa. You cannot change God’s mind as if bending His will to yours. God already knows everything. “ask and you shall receive, your Father knows what you need before you even ask Him.” You should always pray “your will be done” just like Jesus did while suffering in the Garden. Jesus prayed his suffering would pass but “nevertheless” he said “not my will but your be done.” God is ultimate intelligence, he knows what is best and he has your best interest at heart, but remember he made us, we are his.
 
tracie001 said:
Hi, I am attending RCIA classes and have a question about something that was said tonight by the Priest teaching the class.

We were talking about prayer and he said that you pray God’s will be done. I said, I have been told that you shouldn’t really pray God’s will be done because you can change God’s mind through prayer. He said NO, you can never change God’s mind, God already has a plan

So, is this correct? We can’t change God’s mind through prayer? If not, then why do we pray and why do we ask the saints and other people to pray for us?

Thanks,
Tracie
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The best explanation I’ve heard for this came from the priest who taught my RCIA class three years ago:)

Love, is best defined as “wanting the best for someone other than yourself.” God loves us unconditionally, and He always wants what is best for us. Even if what is “best” is not what WE would pick.
When we pray for God’s will to be done…we are praying that “even though I may want differently…I still accept YOUR will over my own, and trust that if you have different plans that YOU know best and want the best for me.”

Just as Christ prayed in the garden at Gesthemene… He knew that He would be betrayed, suffer, and die. But He prayed that “this cup would pass.” He didn’t want to endure what He knew was coming, but yet He still prayed for God’s will to be done over His own.

I think it’s about humility. It’s about knowing we can always come to the Father with our desires and concerns, but trusting that His wisdom is greater than our own.

That is my understanding, I hope that helps:) God bless!
 
tracie001 said:
Hi, I am attending RCIA classes and have a question about something that was said tonight by the Priest teaching the class.

We were talking about prayer and he said that you pray God’s will be done. I said, I have been told that you shouldn’t really pray God’s will be done because you can change God’s mind through prayer. He said NO, you can never change God’s mind, God already has a plan

So, is this correct? We can’t change God’s mind through prayer? If not, then why do we pray and why do we ask the saints and other people to pray for us?

Thanks,
Tracie
Click to expand...
Peace be with you!

Prayer leads us closer to understanding God’s will and eventually knowing God’s will (which will always be an imperfect understanding.)

It is great you start this thread because I just had this thought the other day. In prayer, I was asking God why I have to pray.

For instance, I want to go back to school after Christmas. I pray that I make it, but I end up saying “but ultimately, it is what You know is best Father”.

It made me wonder, why am I even bothering praying? I should just let all my prayers be “What ever you want Father” or “Jesus pray for what You know is best to pray for”. Yes, definitely, these are prayers of mine, but we have to remember prayer is more dynamic.

Prayer is about us growing closer to God and getting to understand Him better by learning how we are to uniquely communicate with Him.

Basically, if we do not pray though, we cannot really truly live for God. Prayer becomes mysterious in this manner. We need to pray to follow God, but a lot of times our prayers are answered with a big fat “NO”, but it still helps us get closer to Him.

Though, I think God can answer prayers and it still work with in His Will. The example of the Wedding Feastof Cana where Mary asked Jesus for a favor. Jesus did not want to perform a miracle yet (that miracle, of course, being the turning water into wine) though He did it because He was petitioned.

It is hard to understand how God works His Divine Plan, but that does not mean pray cannot change things. I like this quote:

“God governs the world, but prayer governs God”

Maybe this all confused you more. I do not think prayer is meant to be a cut-and-dry type of understanding. I mean, we’re talking about communicating with the God of the Universe, it’s pretty complex stuff! 👍

You can thank me for confusing you now! 😉
 
AshleyBelle said:
The best explanation I’ve heard for this came from the priest who taught my RCIA class three years ago:)

Love, is best defined as “wanting the best for someone other than yourself.” God loves us unconditionally, and He always wants what is best for us. Even if what is “best” is not what WE would pick.
When we pray for God’s will to be done…we are praying that “even though I may want differently…I still accept YOUR will over my own, and trust that if you have different plans that YOU know best and want the best for me.”

Just as Christ prayed in the garden at Gesthemene… He knew that He would be betrayed, suffer, and die. But He prayed that “this cup would pass.” He didn’t want to endure what He knew was coming, but yet He still prayed for God’s will to be done over His own.

I think it’s about humility. It’s about knowing we can always come to the Father with our desires and concerns, but trusting that His wisdom is greater than our own.

That is my understanding, I hope that helps:) God bless!
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I would argue that to love God is not to pray concerning our best interest but His! and the best interest of others. and for God to grace us for sacrifice.
 
Traicie,
God has a plan for all of us. He already knows what we will do. We look at God from a human perspective, but God sees us divinely perfectly and since He transcends time and space he is all knowing. The best prayer that we pray is one that is in cooperation with his. Liturgical prayer is the norm in the Church as the official prayers. That’s what the scripture is used for. That’s why there are readings. This goes all the way back to the very beginning.

I’ve heard that perfection is reflective in our prayers when we come to contemplate God without asking anything because we recognize that we have everything when we cooperate with God’s will. Something like that. I’ll look for it and post it when I find it. In other words, we ask God for that which we need, but realize that that is part of our human nature. When we set ourselves aside, then we are approaching prayer divinely…that is more perfectly. We recognize that suffering is a blessing that we can use to join in Christ suffering… All of this is New Testament sfuff…and the Teachings of the Catholic Church. I’m just too tired to say what I’m trying to say…worn out.
 
tGette said:
Peace be with you!

Prayer leads us closer to understanding God’s will and eventually knowing God’s will (which will always be an imperfect understanding.)

It is great you start this thread because I just had this thought the other day. In prayer, I was asking God why I have to pray.

For instance, I want to go back to school after Christmas. I pray that I make it, but I end up saying “but ultimately, it is what You know is best Father”.

It made me wonder, why am I even bothering praying? I should just let all my prayers be “What ever you want Father” or “Jesus pray for what You know is best to pray for”. Yes, definitely, these are prayers of mine, but we have to remember prayer is more dynamic.

Prayer is about us growing closer to God and getting to understand Him better by learning how we are to uniquely communicate with Him.

Basically, if we do not pray though, we cannot really truly live for God. Prayer becomes mysterious in this manner. We need to pray to follow God, but a lot of times our prayers are answered with a big fat “NO”, but it still helps us get closer to Him.

Though, I think God can answer prayers and it still work with in His Will. The example of the Wedding Feastof Cana where Mary asked Jesus for a favor. Jesus did not want to perform a miracle yet (that miracle, of course, being the turning water into wine) though He did it because He was petitioned.

It is hard to understand how God works His Divine Plan, but that does not mean pray cannot change things. I like this quote:

“God governs the world, but prayer governs God”

Maybe this all confused you more. I do not think prayer is meant to be a cut-and-dry type of understanding. I mean, we’re talking about communicating with the God of the Universe, it’s pretty complex stuff! 👍

You can thank me for confusing you now! 😉
Click to expand...
God wants us to communicate with him, to “pour out our heart before him.” Ask and you shall receive: St. Paul says to pray without ceasing. Prayer is the very lifeblood of our relationship with God and I don’t mean replacing heartful prayer with Hail Marys. Although I believe in intercession, POUR OUT YOUR HEART TO GOD.
 
Thanks for your responses!! But, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that I would try to bend God’s will to mine about any and everything.

Lets say you have a specific need, health for example, can you not pray and ask God for Him to help or even heal you? I mean, I know of people who have been healed from very serious things and they had people pray over them for a healing. Was that God’s will before they were ever prayed for or could those prayers have changed God’s mind and then he healed them?

Another example, my husband is going through some VERY difficult health problems which the doctor’s have told him will not get better. How do I pray for him? Can I ask God to heal him? If God’s mind is already made up, why do I need to pray?
I don’t mean for this to sound harsh, I’m just honestly trying to understand and do the right thing!!
Thanks,
Tracie

And, tGette, you didn’t confuse me at all, it made sense!!🙂
 
SimonArizona said:
God wants us to communicate with him, to “pour out our heart before him.” Ask and you shall receive: St. Paul says to pray without ceasing. Prayer is the very lifeblood of our relationship with God and I don’t mean replacing heartful prayer with Hail Marys. Although I believe in intercession, POUR OUT YOUR HEART TO GOD.
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Exactly!

Prayer becomes about trust, trusting that God is in control and will guide you!

For instance…“in the moment” prayer is what guides us step-by-step through a day. It is our constant asking for help to show our reliance on Him and asking for God to speak through us as we approach people and situations, etc. all of which truly helps us bring about His plan.

Prayer is about giving ourselves to God and it becomes about conforming our will to the will of our master!
OUR MASTER WHO LOVES US AS FATHER!

Remember, we change God’s plan every time we sin. He is suddenly given a new sin He has to bring good out of. So in that sense, if our sinful behavior can cause God to have to “rework” his plan, then prayer can change things, but ultimately prayer changes. . . . . . .

** . . . Prayer changes, US!!!**
 
tracie001 said:
Thanks for your responses!! But, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that I would try to bend God’s will to mine about any and everything.

Lets say you have a specific need, health for example, can you not pray and ask God for Him to help or even heal you? I mean, I know of people who have been healed from very serious things and they had people pray over them for a healing. Was that God’s will before they were ever prayed for or could those prayers have changed God’s mind and then he healed them?

Another example, my husband is going through some VERY difficult health problems which the doctor’s have told him will not get better. How do I pray for him? Can I ask God to heal him? If God’s mind is already made up, why do I need to pray?
I don’t mean for this to sound harsh, I’m just honestly trying to understand and do the right thing!!
Thanks,
Tracie

And, tGette, you didn’t confuse me at all, it made sense!!🙂
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I swear you were reading my mind from the other night! This is exactly what my thought process was.

Again, remember, prayer is more than just petition.

In answering your question, there is NOTHING wrong with praying for your husband to be healed.
In answering your other question, I guess yes God does know what He is going to do before hand, but that should not stop you from praying.

Prayer is ultimately about helping you grow closer to God. It may not change the world every time, but it will change you. It will help you grow in faith and hope and your trust in Him!

I guess…prayer could be seen as the work a doctor does. Sure there is always a chance the person might not make it through surgery, but the doctor has to try to save the person. Does that analogy help?
 
tracie001 said:
Thanks for your responses!! But, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that I would try to bend God’s will to mine about any and everything.

Lets say you have a specific need, health for example, can you not pray and ask God for Him to help or even heal you? I mean, I know of people who have been healed from very serious things and they had people pray over them for a healing. Was that God’s will before they were ever prayed for or could those prayers have changed God’s mind and then he healed them?

Another example, my husband is going through some VERY difficult health problems which the doctor’s have told him will not get better. How do I pray for him? Can I ask God to heal him? If God’s mind is already made up, why do I need to pray?
I don’t mean for this to sound harsh, I’m just honestly trying to understand and do the right thing!!
Thanks,
Tracie

And, tGette, you didn’t confuse me at all, it made sense!!🙂
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Know that God has your best at heart, and know that He is God. His mind is set on you asking for what you want and need, so do that. It’s hard to anticipate God, He is a lion and a lamb. Talk open and honestly with Him, thats what He’s after
 
tGette said:
Exactly!

Prayer becomes about trust, trusting that God is in control and will guide you!

For instance…“in the moment” prayer is what guides us step-by-step through a day. It is our constant asking for help to show our reliance on Him and ask for God to speak through us as we approach people and situations, etc. all of which truly helps us bring about His plan.

Prayer becomes about conforming our will will the will of our master!
OUR MASTER WHO LOVES US AS FATHER!

Remember, we change God’s plan every time we sin. He is suddenly given a new sin He has to bring good out of. So in that sense, prayer can change things, but ultimately prayer changes. . . . . . .

** . . . Prayer changes, US!!!**
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How great a love He has bestowed upon us that we should be called the Sons of God! I think God, all-knowing, has prepared in advance for the sins He knew were to be committed. but it is good to know that…

The same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him!
 
SimonArizona said:
How great a love He has bestowed upon us that we should be called the Sons of God! I think God, all-knowing, has prepared in advance for the sins He knew were to be committed. but it is good to know that…

The same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him!
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This reminds me of the one line from the Prayer to Divine Mercy written by Saint Faustina, the part of the prayer says:

“Anticipate us with Your Grace”

God seems to always be one step ahead of us, though this in no way means He planned for us to sin, He just plans according to our sinfulness. Is that safe to say? (The thought is not translating into words very well… :o)
 
tGette,

Well, it’s good to know I’m not the only one thinking this way!!😉 And, YES, your analogy about the doctor made good sense!!

I don’t think that I can change God’s mind on all things!! I know He knows what’s best. But, when the Priest said that tonight, it really got me to thinking about all of this. The way he put it made me wonder - so why do we pray to the saints for intercession, to ask for their help if in the end the decision is already made. I know that some things I pray for will be answered with a NO. I know that sometimes what I think is best is NOT what God thinks is best. And I totally understand that!! I was just confused when I started thinking about praying for a healing for me or someone else. And, I know that just b/c I pray for it doesn’t always make it so, I’ve just always thought that there was always that possibility that it “could” change.

Tracie
 
tracie001 said:
tGette,

Well, it’s good to know I’m not the only one thinking this way!!😉 And, YES, your analogy about the doctor made good sense!!

I don’t think that I can change God’s mind on all things!! I know He knows what’s best. But, when the Priest said that tonight, it really got me to thinking about all of this. The way he put it made me wonder - so why do we pray to the saints for intercession, to ask for their help if in the end the decision is already made. I know that some things I pray for will be answered with a NO. I know that sometimes what I think is best is NOT what God thinks is best. And I totally understand that!! I was just confused when I started thinking about praying for a healing for me or someone else. And, I know that just b/c I pray for it doesn’t always make it so, I’ve just always thought that there was always that possibility that it “could” change.

Tracie
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Well, you have God to thank for making this so confusing! LOL!

Honestly, I see answered prayer as God working that answer within the parameters of His will. I do not see God’s will as some static thing that can only work in a fixed pattern as if what we do or pray somehow in the end does not matter. Surely God, in His Infinite Wisdom, can allow for a healing, etc. as long as it works within what He ultimately has in mind.

I mean, God can make all of Himself become a fetus, so certainly He can answer a prayer and it not conflict with His Divine Plan! How He does that is one thing I cannot answer and probably never will be able to!

This requires some more thinking/reading about and ironically, it requires more praying about to better understand. It is kind of one of those theological/philosophical discussions that could potentially go a long time.
 
tracie001 said:
We were talking about prayer and he said that you pray God’s will be done. I said, I have been told that you shouldn’t really pray God’s will be done because you can change God’s mind through prayer. He said NO, you can never change God’s mind, God already has a plan
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What he said was true. God already has plans for each and everyone of us. One thing must be asserted though, is that God predestines no one to damnation. What we need to do is to co-operate with Him through prayer as long as you understand the necessity to co-operate with God’s grace to achieve salvation.
 
in truth praying is very telling of our spiritual growth. how, where, and why we pray tells of the degree of spirituality.

remember, God knows of your needs before you ask of them.

Moreover, the Nazarene at gethsemane states; “Father, everything is possible for you. take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

we must be obedient to the Word. the Nazarene shows us how to do that.
 
“Father, everything is possible for you. take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”
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I think that we won’t fully understand this aspect of God until we meet Him face to face.

I do believe that we can ask Him to “change His mind,” and sometimes He does. But “change His mind” is a human term, and can’t encompass the fulness of God’s “mind.”

Again, I can only use human words. Suppose the plan He has going now calls for me to continue to suffer from diabetes. When I pray to be healed of it, He knows already all the things that might happen,** all **the possible ramifications and consequences - not just the big things, but things as small as the number of hairs on my head - and can immediately see what effect healing me could have on His plan. So, He might grant it if it will have no negative effect. It will, at least, show the power of prayer.

And His plan may also include, “By the way, if Ruthie prays to be healed, I will say yes; if not, she won’t be healed.” Not as a given, though. Not as if He were a vending machine. More like a *possible *miracle, dependent on my prayer.

Since He knows my faith in Him will not be changed by a “No” answer, there’s no need for Him to heal me. Even if it would change my faith, He need only grant it if it suits His plans, in which my faith or lack of it may not be important.

Puny human thoughts.
Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love. 1 Cor 13:8-13 (RSV)
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I take ***such ***comfort in that!

God bless us all!

Ruthie
 
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