Question about Second Coming

[Monica4316]

I understand about the teaching about the physical Second Coming of Jesus at the end, before the Last Judgement.

But can Catholics believe that Jesus might come before then, spiritually, not reigning on earth as an earthly king (premillennialism) but reigning Eucharistically during an era of peace? (not something through our own efforts, but through God’s direct action). And that there might be a type of Second Coming before this, but Jesus would reign spiritually, through the Eucharist and in our hearts? and then after this, the devil deceiving the nations again and then Jesus coming physically to judge all the living and the dead. Is this in line with Church teaching or not?

I read that chiliasm was condemned, but what exactly is chiliasm, is it saying that Jesus would reign physicalyl on earth as an earthly king before the Last Judgement? What exact ideas has the Church condemned?

I found some quotes but do they just condemn the idea that we could reach the era of peace through our own efforts? I need some clarification…

676 “The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the ‘intrinsically perverse’ political form of secular messianism.”

Par. 677 “…The kingdom will be fulfilled…not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven…”

Any thoughts?

 

[CB_Catholic]

I understand about the teaching about the physical Second Coming of Jesus at the end, before the Last Judgement.

But can Catholics believe that Jesus might come before then, spiritually, not reigning on earth as an earthly king (premillennialism) but reigning Eucharistically during an era of peace? (not something through our own efforts, but through God’s direct action). And that there might be a type of Second Coming before this, but Jesus would reign spiritually, through the Eucharist and in our hearts? and then after this, the devil deceiving the nations again and then Jesus coming physically to judge all the living and the dead. Is this in line with Church teaching or not?

I read that chiliasm was condemned, but what exactly is chiliasm, is it saying that Jesus would reign physicalyl on earth as an earthly king before the Last Judgement? What exact ideas has the Church condemned?

I found some quotes but do they just condemn the idea that we could reach the era of peace through our own efforts? I need some clarification…

676 “The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the ‘intrinsically perverse’ political form of secular messianism.”

Par. 677 “…The kingdom will be fulfilled…not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven…”

Any thoughts?

I don’t think the Church teaches anything other than the traditional teaching, which says that Jesus will return exactly as the Scriptures indicate, and we will all know it. There is no secret coming in any form, even spiritually. In the Book of Acts, the Angels even say He will return in exactly the way He left. There is one and only one Second Coming.

 

[Nimzovik]

I don’t think the Church teaches anything other than the traditional teaching, which says that Jesus will return exactly as the Scriptures indicate, and we will all know it. There is no secret coming in any form, even spiritually. In the Book of Acts, the Angels even say He will return in exactly the way He left. There is one and only one Second Coming.

St. Faustina’s writtings seem to indicate it is near…

 

[garysibio]

I understand about the teaching about the physical Second Coming of Jesus at the end, before the Last Judgement.

But can Catholics believe that Jesus might come before then, spiritually, not reigning on earth as an earthly king (premillennialism) but reigning Eucharistically during an era of peace? (not something through our own efforts, but through God’s direct action). And that there might be a type of Second Coming before this, but Jesus would reign spiritually, through the Eucharist and in our hearts? and then after this, the devil deceiving the nations again and then Jesus coming physically to judge all the living and the dead. Is this in line with Church teaching or not?

I read that chiliasm was condemned, but what exactly is chiliasm, is it saying that Jesus would reign physicalyl on earth as an earthly king before the Last Judgement? What exact ideas has the Church condemned?

I found some quotes but do they just condemn the idea that we could reach the era of peace through our own efforts? I need some clarification…

676 “The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the ‘intrinsically perverse’ political form of secular messianism.”

Par. 677 “…The kingdom will be fulfilled…not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven…”

Any thoughts?

Chiliasm is the belief in a literal 1,000 year Millenium. The best example would be the pre-Millenial position of many Evangelical Protestants although there are other variations.

Interestingly the pre-Millenial, literal 1,000 year view was held by the majority of the Church Fathers of the earliest centuries. Papias went so far as to call the view currently held by the RCC heretical. This is especially interesting since he was taught by St. John the Apostle who was the human author of the book of Revelation which is the biblical source on the Millenium.

 

[dagelos]

I understand about the teaching about the physical Second Coming of Jesus at the end, before the Last Judgement.

But can Catholics believe that Jesus might come before then, spiritually, not reigning on earth as an earthly king (premillennialism) but reigning Eucharistically during an era of peace? (not something through our own efforts, but through God’s direct action). And that there might be a type of Second Coming before this, but Jesus would reign spiritually, through the Eucharist and in our hearts? and then after this, the devil deceiving the nations again and then Jesus coming physically to judge all the living and the dead. Is this in line with Church teaching or not?

I read that chiliasm was condemned, but what exactly is chiliasm, is it saying that Jesus would reign physicalyl on earth as an earthly king before the Last Judgement? What exact ideas has the Church condemned?

I found some quotes but do they just condemn the idea that we could reach the era of peace through our own efforts? I need some clarification…

676 “The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the ‘intrinsically perverse’ political form of secular messianism.”

Par. 677 “…The kingdom will be fulfilled…not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven…”

Any thoughts?

If there is a second coming before the Resurrection - then how are dead raised before they are resurrected???
In other words,how are the dead resurrected if the resurrection has not taken place yet?

Read these verses…

Revelations 20:13:And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelations 20:5-6: 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

If you are still not sure…about the second coming…
consider this,Jesus already appeared…

Matthew 28:10:Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.

Matthew 28:16-17:16Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Luke 24:36:And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

John 20:17:Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 20:24:But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

John 21:1:After these things Jesus shewed himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; and on this wise shewed he himself.

John 21:14:This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.

Acts 1:9:And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Acts 1:11:Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 

[CB_Catholic]

St. Faustina’s writtings seem to indicate it is near…

St. Paul and the early Christians believed it would be in their lifetimes. That was 2000 years ago. Jesus said no one knows the hour or day.

 

[Nimzovik]

St. Paul and the early Christians believed it would be in their lifetimes. That was 2000 years ago. Jesus said no one knows the hour or day.

Yes… However the Lord himself - according to St, Faustina’s diary- indicated that the Chaplet of Divine Mercy would preceed ‘that day.’

Granted. This may fall under the categroy of ‘Private Revelations’ however I have a tendency to give St. Faustina much of my ear.

 

[PeterGStanley]

Yes… However the Lord himself - according to St, Faustina’s diary- indicated that the Chaplet of Divine Mercy would preceed ‘that day.’

Granted. This may fall under the categroy of ‘Private Revelations’ however I have a tendency to give St. Faustina much of my ear.

I also give ear to her private revelation as he says :

You will prepare the world for My final coming. (Diary 429)

Speak to the world about My mercy … It is a sign for the end times. After it will come the Day of Justice. While there is still time, let them have recourse to the fountain of My mercy. (Diary 848)

Tell souls about this great mercy of Mine, because the awful day, the day of My justice, is near. (Diary 965).

I am prolonging the time of mercy for the sake of sinners. But woe to them if they do not recognize this time of My visitation. (Diary 1160)

Before the Day of Justice, I am sending the Day of Mercy. (Diary 1588)

He who refuses to pass through the door of My mercy must pass through the door of My justice. (Diary 1146).

Read more: ewtn.com/devotionals/mercy/coming.htm#ixzz1nc2Li5d6

 

[Nita]

I676 "The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment.

This means any claims that Jesus will return to set up an ideal/utopian kingdom (messianic hope) here on earth, are false. His coming and the establishment of the fullness of His kingdom will only be realized after the last judgement at the end of the world (eschatological judgment). The fulfillment of the Kingdom will take place in heaven, not on earth

676 cont.
The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the ‘intrinsically perverse’ political form of secular messianism." .

This is a rejection of all claims that hold Jesus will return to bodily reign on earth for a thousand years. Chiliasm thus is now rejected by the Church, even tho there may have been some in the earlier years who believed in such a thing.

Par. 677 “The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection. The kingdom will be fulfilled…not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven. God’s triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.”

(I typed in, and underlined, the two sentences from the paragraph that were not in your quote.)
The paragraph is saying not to expect the fulfillment of the Kingdom to come about through a continued growth and influence of the Church here on earth (“progressive ascendancy”). Rather, the paragraph indicates a situation will arise where evil has gained the ascendancy and the Church will be persecuted to the point of undergoing what may appear to be death – “…when she/Church will follow her Lord in his death and resurrection”.

That is my understanding of those 2 paragraphs.