Question concerning NFP

[Joya]

Hi Joya, I’ve been skimming Humanae Vitae for the line that you’ve quoted above and I’m having the worst time finding it. (Maybe we’re working from a different translations?) Would you please provide the the exact location of your quote, I’m looking forward to reading it in context and continuing our discussion. Thanks.

Admittedly, I have not read HV myself, but that quotation seems to be the most well-known from the encyclical. I’ve come across it several times in Catholic periodicals from authors who reference HV. So I just Googled the quote to get the exact words. It came up in many articles. I think Texas Roofer pointed out the right place in the encyclical even though the wording isn’t exactly the same.

Thanks, Texas for your help!

 

[LittleDeb]

I’m not saying that at all…But with regard to INTENT, I wish the Church would set up more clearly what is acceptable, and what is not. Yes, I said the worst scenario…but the same applies to everybody who harbors the same INTENT. What if a couple does have ONE child, and they arbitrarily close the process of transmission of life? Aren’t they breaking the spirit of the teaching of the Church just as those who decided not to have children in the first place? Yes, they do have one child, but their INTENT is just the same from that point onward!

This is getting even closer to the heart of the problem. You use a very good word for understanding it, ‘arbitrarily.’ One of the ways to further understand the intent is by understanding that periodic abstinence is as old as the marital act. We, as flawed humans, have been closed to children since the dawn of time. Those who did not know their fertility just had longer periods of abstinence. What tears those couples apart is their arbitrary line. Again, it has nothing to do with NFP. As we all know, there are some people who contracept who actually have the intent correct! Their means are wrong, but some have a proper intent.

Have you read some of the posts on this topic by others? To me that is the most alarming when discussing NFP…why are so many couples UNHAPPY when they use NFP?? If NFP is so good for all those who practice it, then why are couples abandoning it? No…not everybody is unhappy…but quite a few couples posted their displeasure and complaints about NFP, stating in some cases that NFP DISTANCED their relationship, INSTEAD OF BRING IT CLOSER. That in itself should raise a red flag!

Yes, as a promoter of NFP and a long time member here, I have read a whole lot of threads on the topic. The clue is always listening carefully for the REAL problem. NFP is often their scapegoat. Please understand that I used to think pre-marital sex was fine. I know, crazy! But I found out that my reasoning for thinking it was fine was nearly identical to those who use NFP as their scapegoat. You have articulated the problem very well in one word, arbitrary.

When you read those threads in the future, look for their concrete reason for spacing or delaying children. We have a wonderful woman right here on CAF who has used NFP for 10 years to absolutely prevent conception if at all possible. She is also one of the most “open to life” people I have ever met. Why? Because her reason is concrete. She has a heart problem that pregnancy will kill her. Children are NOT the problem. Pregnancy is not the problem either. Her problem is her heart. You will discover that the people who are saying that NFP is the problem usually have drawn an arbitrary line.

I discovered I had a contraceptive mentality. Every time I laughed at the phrase, “Stupid people shouldn’t breed,” I was arbitrarily contraceptive.

 

[LittleDeb]

Very true.

It seems you are saying contracpetion is always wrong, no matter how good the intent is. The means of NFP are not evil, but the intent can be evil?

The confusion, for some, is that they see NFP as equal to contraception because the ends may be the same. So, here is a question for a moral theologian.

It seems apparent the sin of contraception falls under the 6th commandment. Would having an evil intent to use NFP fall under 6? Perhaps it would fall under 1?

I would like to know.

Correct. The means of NFP are never sinful. There is nothing wrong with charting, even charting indefinitely. It is absolutely neutral. It is akin to reading the labels on cans and being aware of the carbs and protein one puts in one’s body. Acting on that knowledge is also never sinful (when considering each and every marital act.) It is only intent that can be sinful.

I would also be interested in know which commandment contraception falls under. Although I laugh. Since having been raised around waaaaay to many “King James, Bible alone” people, I have no idea which commandment is actually the 6th.

 

[fix]

Correct. The means of NFP are never sinful. There is nothing wrong with charting, even charting indefinitely. It is absolutely neutral. It is akin to reading the labels on cans and being aware of the carbs and protein one puts in one’s body. Acting on that knowledge is also never sinful (when considering each and every marital act.) It is only intent that can be sinful.

I would also be interested in know which commandment contraception falls under. Although I laugh. Since having been raised around waaaaay to many “King James, Bible alone” people, I have no idea which commandment is actually the 6th.

Well, in the CCC #6 is Adultery and that is where contraception is mentioned. I ask about NFP with a selfish intent because it seems more likely to be #1 as placing something else before God.

 

[LittleDeb]

Well, in the CCC #6 is Adultery and that is where contraception is mentioned. I ask about NFP with a selfish intent because it seems more likely to be #1 as placing something else before God.

Thanks! I really need to learn the Catholic numbering rather than just the list.

I would tend to agree that it falls under #1. Since our body has a nuptial design it could be adultery, but that seems like a stretch to me. I really think it falls under putting other gods before Him. If I had a penny for every time someone said, “I don’t trust NFP,” I would be a very wealthy woman! But here I will add one more penny to my stash. “I don’t trust NFP,” either. I trust God. To put my trust in NFP would be exactly that offense to God.

Sex makes babies, no matter how many people who try to tell us it doesn’t. I think that is the reason I have so much respect for Rayne89 (the woman with the heart problem.) Please forgive me, Rayne, for discussing you without first getting your consent. But she and her husband have really seemed to truly be trusting God with her life. They DO make exclusive use of the infertile phases. I see it, from what she has said, that they have prayerfully considered the risks. They consider themselves blessed to be around in an era where NFP is more reliable. They have not ceased relations altogether. They have put their trust in God that his will be done. That is an amazing statement to anyone!

 

[Good_Daughter]

Admittedly, I have not read HV myself, but that quotation seems to be the most well-known from the encyclical. I’ve come across it several times in Catholic periodicals from authors who reference HV. So I just Googled the quote to get the exact words. It came up in many articles. I think Texas Roofer pointed out the right place in the encyclical even though the wording isn’t exactly the same.

Thanks, Texas for your help!

Nothing I say could compare to the depth and beauty of Paul VI’s words in Humanae Vitae. If you have any interest in Catholic teaching on birth control (or related matters) it is an invaluable read.

“Open to the transmission of life” sounds like an accurate description of the marital act by a couple who use NFP for any reason. What is forbidden in Catholic teaching is rendering the marital act infertile. Because the word “render” means to cause to be or become, we know that NFP cannot possibly render sex infertile. NFP works as birth control because it allows us to see when nature itself renders the marital act infertile.

When you read Catholic teaching, you learn that couples themselves are not necessarily called to be “open to life” or “open to the transmission of life” (when they have serious reason to avoid pregnancy) but they are called to keep the marital act itself open to that transmission. How do couples using NFP do that? By keeping the natural end of the marital act intact. These couples do nothing to alter their bodies, their fertility or the sex act itself from a natural, healthy state. Also, NFP users do not create for themselves a “fake” infertility in order to facilitate the constant availability of pregnancy-free sex.

Do you think there is anything wrong with a couple using the infertile period for marital relations when they are trying to acheive pregnancy? What, if anything, makes relations at that time wrong when they are trying to avoid pregnancy?

 

[newbetx]

But the morality of the usage of NFP is very questionable.

So, which church do you belong to?

 

[Good_Daughter]

Regarding the couple using nfp to never have children: nfp advocates would say, “Yeah, it’s wrong for them to use nfp never to have children…in essence, it is sinful to use nfp with a “contraceptive mentality”. But still, they are not actually contracepting.” I have actually read that sentiment expressed on these boards. Ridiculous!!!

I’m an NFP advocate and I would never say any such thing!

Let’s look at a hypothetical situation where a faithful Catholic couple marries and plans to postpone pregnancy for a short time, say two months. If, within those two months, the wife develops a serious medical condition and is advised against getting pregnant, how long can this couple continue to use NFP without sinning or having a “contraceptive mentality”?

While they are likely hoping for a restoration of the wife’s health, abstinence (whether total or periodic) would certainly be a wise choice for them as long as their situation calls for it.

I think anyone, contraceptors or non-contraceptors can have good reasons for postponing pregnancy. Similarly, anyone can be guilty of the “contraceptive mentality”. Only contraceptors actually contracept, though.

 

[Good_Daughter]

First…is it sinful to use NFP as the method of contraception ONLY? Never opening up to the transmission of life clearly stands against the teaching of the Church.

Any uncontracepted sex is open to the transmission of life.

If a couple, through no fault of their own, find themselves with serious reason to avoid pregnancy, does it really matter how many children they already have or how long they need to postpone pregnancy?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

It may occur that a couple marries with proper intent of marriage and then before they procreate find or develop a serious condition. However the comments concern healthy people who simply decide 1 or 2 is their number for children and thus dismiss the serious reason as a requirement.