question for muslims

[Montalban]

Next regarding having “evidence” concerning Mary’s age?
I sited an apologist from this forum. I didn’t say anything about her youth being the definitive infallible fact you seem to think I was implying.

I asked you for proof. You made a statement about tradition saying she was 14.

Your best ‘proof’ is something you even here announce doesn’t give definitive proof.

So why cite it? Why in response to my challenge to you cite something that doesn’t prove your point?

 

[slyboots]

Gee Montalban. I have no idea what bug crawled up your back but doggone you are one angry person.
I was just talking.
The Roman tradition as I have been taught and see on this website is that Our Lady was a young teen at the time of her betrothal and marriage.
I have no idea what the Orthodox view is…
I never implied that I condoned, accepted or desired any child of nine years old to be sexually abused.
And should it happen in my business we get a court order, bust the the perp, present evidence against him/her in court and work like heck to get them convicted. And after having removed the child from the danger we try to find a a safe home for them while they hopefully recover with the help of God.
I am also not a dude but a 54 year old Catholic grandmother who knits, prays rosaries, makes cookies and babysits my darling grandchildren who are all blessings from God. And I am blessed by God to have been married nearly 33 of those years to a wonderful man.
It’s not my habit or intention to attack anybody.
We’re just talking here. I promise you I am not trying to make infallible statements nor could I.

 

[Montalban]

Gee Montalban. I have no idea what bug crawled up your back but doggone you are one angry person.
I was just talking.

You still don’t get it. You ‘talked’ about something, whether you were just chewing the fat or not, and what you thought was wrong.

You personalise this, but it is you that seems particularly angered that someone would show this to be false and demand that you provide some kind of evidence for why you thought it.

Confronted with the evidence, you could just admit now that what you thought was wrong, but you still won’t do that.

The Roman tradition as I have been taught and see on this website is that Our Lady was a young teen at the time of her betrothal and marriage.

Great. But that’s wrong.

I have no idea what the Orthodox view is…

It’s irrelevant.

I never implied that I condoned, accepted or desired any child of nine years old to be sexually abused.

I don’t claim that you do.
I want to know what’s so hard about admitting you were wrong.
I want to know why you’d repeat your relativist argument, if you condone it.

You’ve entered a thread on a very serious issue, where someone’s developing a discussion about Islam and the practices of Muhammad and for whatever reason (which is irrelevant) you wade in with your own thoughts that trivialised Muhammad’s actions, by comparing it to what happened to Mary, and also to suggest that Aisha was not nine when she was abused. And you’re wrong.

And should it happen in my business we get a court order, bust the the perp, present evidence against him/her in court and work like heck to get them convicted. And after having removed the child from the danger we try to find a a safe home for them while they hopefully recover with the help of God.
I am also not a dude but a 54 year old Catholic grandmother who knits, prays rosaries, makes cookies and baby-sits my darling grandchildren who are all blessings from God. And I am blessed by God to have been married nearly 33 of those years to a wonderful man.
It’s not my habit or intention to attack anybody.

Yet you question my sanity. And you still want to move on as if what you say here is not wrong

But as you raise the issue of a court case imagine if you would a serious case of child abuse that you’re involved with (supporting the child through this horrible time) and you over-hear someone saying something off-the-cuff about it, in an effort to trivialises it. Say the girl was nine and you hear someone saying “All 14 year olds deserve it”. Would you correct them and expect them to admit they were wrong? Would you explain the difference between someone 9 compared to 14 and how the facts in the case differ from their own perceptions?

For someone who claims they support the child in this you do a poor job.

We’re just talking here. I promise you I am not trying to make infallible statements nor could I.

And until you come up with some evidence for your thoughts, you’re wrong.

This is now about the fourth post you’ve made where you have not been able to admit it.

 

[slyboots]

You still don’t get it. You ‘talked’ about something, whether you were just chewing the fat or not, and what you thought was wrong.

You personalise this, but it is you that seems particularly angered that someone would show this to be false and demand that you provide some kind of evidence for why you thought it.

Confronted with the evidence, you could just admit now that what you thought was wrong, but you still won’t do that.

Great. But that’s wrong.

It’s irrelevant.

I don’t claim that you do.
I want to know what’s so hard about admitting you were wrong.
I want to know why you’d repeat your relativist argument, if you condone it.

You’ve entered a thread on a very serious issue, where someone’s developing a discussion about Islam and the practices of Muhammad and for whatever reason (which is irrelevant) you wade in with your own thoughts that trivialised Muhammad’s actions, by comparing it to what happened to Mary, and also to suggest that Aisha was not nine when she was abused. And you’re wrong.

Yet you question my sanity. And you still want to move on as if what you say here is not wrong

But as you raise the issue of a court case imagine if you would a serious case of child abuse that you’re involved with (supporting the child through this horrible time) and you over-hear someone saying something off-the-cuff about it, in an effort to trivialises it. Say the girl was nine and you hear someone saying “All 14 year olds deserve it”. Would you correct them and expect them to admit they were wrong? Would you explain the difference between someone 9 compared to 14 and how the facts in the case differ from their own perceptions?

For someone who claims they support the child in this you do a poor job.

And until you come up with some evidence for your thoughts, you’re wrong.

This is now about the fourth post you’ve made where you have not been able to admit it.

Montalban, I am not wrong. I am not at all angry. Not at you or anyone.
I just see you as someone who has decided to die on this hill when then wasn’t even a battle.
God be with you. It’s over.

 

[Montalban]

Montalban, I am not wrong. I am not at all angry. Not at you or anyone.
I just see you as someone who has decided to die on this hill when then wasn’t even a battle.
God be with you. It’s over.

You have yet to withdraw your statement.

But so be it.

If anyone else wants to defend the ‘prophet’ of Islam, or show why a person betrothed at 14 has any relationship to a child forced to have sex at nine, let them speak

 

[Kadaveri]

If anyone’s got a grandmother alive, try asking them how old they were when they were married; and if you can, try asking them how old *their *grandmothers were when they were married, you may notice a trend.

You can’t judge a 7th Century man by 21th Century standards, the society’s were totally different. You only need to go as far back as 19th Century USA to find girls being married at 10 and starting having children in their early teens not being unusual. Life expectancies were much lower then, health care was much less advanced and childbirth was much more risky as women got older; anyplace you look in such a sociological situation, women are married at much younger ages.

 

[exoflare]

If anyone’s got a grandmother alive, try asking them how old they were when they were married; and if you can, try asking them how old their grandmothers were when they were married, you may notice a trend.

Let’s see how long it takes before we find one who was NINE when they got married…

 

[exoflare]

Pardon me, SIX when they got married… She was nine years old when the marriage was “consummated”.

 

[Montalban]

If anyone’s got a grandmother alive, try asking them how old they were when they were married; and if you can, try asking them how old their grandmothers were when they were married, you may notice a trend.

By that logic my great-great-great-great-great grandmother got married whilst still an embryo.

You can’t judge a 7th Century man by 21th Century standards, the society’s were totally different. You only need to go as far back as 19th Century USA to find girls being married at 10 and starting having children in their early teens not being unusual. Life expectancies were much lower then, health care was much less advanced and childbirth was much more risky as women got older; anyplace you look in such a sociological situation, women are married at much younger ages.

We’re not judging man in the 7th century by our standards of ‘today’ but by universal (God made standards). That is, a man does not have relations with a child.

It is evil.

Muhammad did evil.

He’s your prime example of behaviour.

 

[Montalban]

Pardon me, SIX when they got married… She was nine years old when the marriage was “consummated”.

Moslems try the great argument of relativism and abrogation of responsibility.

One person did evil, but it’s excused because someone else did the same evil.

One person did evil, but only because he was compelled to because the other person was improperly dressed.

And so on.

Moslem mentality makes me think that they can’t cross beyond botched logic. They pretend that we can’t judge today what happened in the past; as if the whole concept of ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ is ephemeral. And at the same time they still maintain that Mohammed is the ideal man and that he’s an example FOR ALL TIME, thus what was right for Muhammad is still ‘right’ (Moslems love the contradictory argument).

They argue that ‘maturity’ can only be based on biology, but themselves don’t allow such ‘women’ the rights of adults… ensuring that they only apply such laws as it favours men who lust after children.

 

[slyboots]

Interesting book.
American Alone by Mark Steyn.
You might read it and see what you think. Muslims probably won’t like it.