Question on Matthew 19:28

[enanneman]

I’m curious what the opinions are for the following passage from Matthew…

Matthew 19:28
Jesus said to them, "Amen, I say to you that you who have followed me, in the new age, when the Son of Man is seated on his throne of glory, will yourselves sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Since Judas committed suicide, can we infer that he somehow repented his sin and received salvation, which would allow him to sit on a throne? Otherwise, how should one interpret this passage?

Thanks!

Eric

 

[Erich]

From Acts 1:

15 During those days Peter stood up in the midst of the brothers (there was a group of about one hundred and twenty persons in the one place). He said,
16 “My brothers, the scripture had to be fulfilled which the holy Spirit spoke beforehand through the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who was the guide for those who arrested Jesus.
17 He was numbered among us and was allotted a share in this ministry.
18 He bought a parcel of land with the wages of his iniquity, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle, and all his insides spilled out.
19 This became known to everyone who lived in Jerusalem, so that the parcel of land was called in their language ‘Akeldama,’ that is, Field of Blood.
20 For it is written in the Book of Psalms: ‘Let his encampment become desolate, and may no one dwell in it.’ And: ‘May another take his office.’
21 Therefore, it is necessary that one of the men who accompanied us the whole time the Lord Jesus came and went among us,
22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day on which he was taken up from us, become with us a witness to his resurrection.”
23 So they proposed two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also known as Justus, and Matthias.
24 Then they prayed, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen
25 to take the place in this apostolic ministry from which Judas turned away to go to his own place.”
26 Then they gave lots to them, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was counted with the eleven apostles.

I would be inclined to believe that the twelfth throne is for Matthias.

 

[Verbum]

Hi Eric,

Judas had the calling, heeded it, then rejected it. In the same way, we, through our baptism have become adopted children of God and heirs to heaven, yet we can reject this calling.

Verbum

 

[Malachi4U]

Did Judas have faith that Jesus was God or did he know that Jesus was God?

If Judas had Faith and knew Jesus was God and Judas lost his salvation, is faith alone enough to save or just enough to loose salvation?

Has Judas been judged?

Can salvation be lost once earned/obtained?

Uhm???

 

[enanneman]

Verbum:

Hi Eric,

Judas had the calling, heeded it, then rejected it. In the same way, we, through our baptism have become adopted children of God and heirs to heaven, yet we can reject this calling.

Verbum

Vebrum, welcome!

What I find puzzling is Jesus’ statement that “you…will sit on twelve thrones” indicates that all of the apostles will be with him in Heaven and judge the tribes of Israel, ergo, the 12 apostles, including Judas, will be in Heaven.

Now, I can understand what Erich is saying that Matthias will take Judas’ place among the 12, but Jesus’ statement seems to be pretty straightforward in including Judas among the 12…

Puzzling…

Eric

 

[Jade]

Malachi4U wrote: “If Judas had Faith and knew Jesus was God and Judas lost his salvation, is faith alone enough to save or just enough to loose salvation?”

Hmmm- good question.
I would say that faith is very powerful, after all, it is by faith that we live and trust and beleive in God. Christ said that “he who believes in Me will have eternal life.” In that staement, there is nothing else implied that one needs to do to be saved, except to believe- to have faith, which is a gift from God.

Just a side note: I heard somewhere that Judas’ sin was not that he committed suicide, but that he didn’t believe in the mercy of God.

I told that to a friend of mine and she almost lost her head! I don’t know why she had such a strong reaction to it, but I thought that the statment made one think.
Any thoughts?

 

[enanneman]

Jade:

Just a side note: I heard somewhere that Judas’ sin was not that he committed suicide, but that he didn’t believe in the mercy of God.

I told that to a friend of mine and she almost lost her head! I don’t know why she had such a strong reaction to it, but I thought that the statment made one think.
Any thoughts?

I’ve heard that as well. And, while his sin indeed was suicide, his greater sin was that of despair, in that, he felt he was unworthy of salvation. Had he only turned to the Lord and repented his sin, he would have been forgiven.

And…who knows, perhaps he did just that after jumping from his perch.

Peace and God bless!

Eric

 

[WhatIf]

enanneman:

I’m curious what the opinions are for the following passage from Matthew…Since Judas committed suicide, can we infer that he somehow repented his sin and received salvation, which would allow him to sit on a throne? Otherwise, how should one interpret this passage?

Thanks!

Eric

My opinion is that Jesus says “…you who have followed me…”, so I think this would then exclude Judas since he ceased being a follower when he betrayed Jesus. I would think that Judas lost “his seat”.

 

[enanneman]

WhatIf:

My opinion is that Jesus says “…you who have followed me…”, so I think this would then exclude Judas since he ceased being a follower when he betrayed Jesus. I would think that Judas lost “his seat”.

And then Matthias claimed it? I can buy this, I suppose, but it just seems like Jesus clearly encompases all 12 of the original apostles when he says they’ll be seated on 12 thrones.

 

[Maccabees]

enanneman:

And then Matthias claimed it? I can buy this, I suppose, but it just seems like Jesus clearly encompases all 12 of the original apostles when he says they’ll be seated on 12 thrones.

In Acts 1 it clearly states Matthais took the office of Apostle from Judas. The 12 thrones would equate to 12 offices. Somebody did not follow Jesus to the end thus lost his office.
THe Bible says he who endures to end will be saved not those who choose to follow me then quit.
The Bible also says it would be better that Judas would have been better off if he had never been born that is as close to a statement the new testament comes to judging a person to hell. If I was a betting man I would bet the house Judas was not Judging the 12 tribes of Israel.

 

[RobbyS]

enanneman:

Vebrum, welcome!

What I find puzzling is Jesus’ statement that “you…will sit on twelve thrones” indicates that all of the apostles will be with him in Heaven and judge the tribes of Israel, ergo, the 12 apostles, including Judas, will be in Heaven.

Now, I can understand what Erich is saying that Matthias will take Judas’ place among the 12, but Jesus’ statement seems to be pretty straightforward in including Judas among the 12…

Puzzling…

Eric

Jesus obviously made the offer continguent on their faith.

 

[enanneman]

Maccabees:

In Acts 1 it clearly states Matthais took the office of Apostle from Judas. The 12 thrones would equate to 12 offices. Somebody did not follow Jesus to the end thus lost his office.
THe Bible says he who endures to end will be saved not those who choose to follow me then quit.
The Bible also says it would be better that Judas would have been better off if he had never been born that is as close to a statement the new testament comes to judging a person to hell. If I was a betting man I would bet the house Judas was not Judging the 12 tribes of Israel.

Amen. I would not want to see those odds.

 

[Carl]

ENANNEMAN

it just seems like Jesus clearly encompases all 12 of the original apostles when he says they’ll be seated on 12 thrones.

No doubt. There might be a throne in Hell too, where Judas is seated.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

If Judas made it into the kingdom,then the apostles made a mistake relacing him,for there are only 12 seats in the kingdom,actually 24 seats[12 tribe seats OT] God Bless

 

[RobedWithLight]

SPOKENWORD:

If Judas made it into the kingdom,then the apostles made a mistake relacing him,for there are only 12 seats in the kingdom,actually 24 seats[12 tribe seats OT] God Bless

If Judas made it to heaven, then seat or no seat, at least he made it there, assuming that he received forgiveness.

Gerry

 

[cc42]

Something interesting that I read from Fr. William Most is that when Christ said it would be better for Judas not to have been born it could refer to the fact that he would not have to pass through as long of a sentence in purgatory if had died in the womb. So we don’t really know Judas’ state.

 

[57Bill]

I’m curious what the opinions are for the following passage from Matthew…Since Judas committed suicide, can we infer that he somehow repented his sin and received salvation, which would allow him to sit on a throne? Otherwise, how should one interpret this passage?

Thanks!

Eric

I think Jesus was referring to his disciples (those who followed) and not specifically the 12 apostles of that time or even Matthias who might have been present there(?) Those sitting on the twelve thrones are not given power to judge, Jesus sits at the right hand of God and He is the only judge as given to Him by His Father. Those that sit on the twelve thrones will have authority and power, no doubt, but to think they will judge is IMHO over-the top.

and what of St Paul? (just wondering out loud)

 

[ChrisCath]

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 19:28[/BIBLEDRB]

The Haydock commentary on Matthew 19:28 refers readers to:

[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 6:2-3[/BIBLEDRB]

wherein Paul allows that he and all the saints will sit in judgment on the world (which apparently includes the 12 tribes).

 

[57Bill]

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 19:28[/BIBLEDRB]

The Haydock commentary on Matthew 19:28 refers readers to:

[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 6:2-3[/BIBLEDRB]

wherein Paul allows that he and all the saints will sit in judgment on the world (which apparently includes the 12 tribes).

1 Cor 6 seems to be about the disputes taken to those outside of the church (non-believers) rather than the proper way according to St Paul which would be to take those disputes to members (believers) of the church for judgment? Not about final judgment.

Yes, I cannot deny what is written by St Paul. Is it to make a very strong argument with metaphors or taken literally? I question only because I thought the power of judgment (final) was given only to Christ by God.