Question on Sacred Tradition

[laocmo]

I have a question about Catholic sacred tradition. In 12 years of Catholic grade and high school and 4 years at a Catholic university, I learned all about the importance of the Church’s sacred tradition. Later as I read deeply into the history of mankind, I learned that every civilization has had their sacred traditions. The Aztecs sacrificed young virgins at certain times during the year to assure good rain, crops, etc. a sacred tradition to them. Some of the early native Americans had their sacred traditions according to missionary reports such as digging up their deceased ancestors and feasting on them out of supposed respect for the dead. Granted modern Catholic sacred tradition is more civilized than this. But my question is about trusting tradition itself. What makes it right if your ancestors did it that way? What makes it right if we do things today in the church just because early Christians did it that way? One answer to a prior question I posed said I should trust sacred tradition. I’m confused as usual.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

Not everything could be recorded. We trust tradition in large part because Jesus told the Apostles to “do this”, and that was handed down through the generations. What do we believe if not the teachings of Jesus? Teaching is oral and written - lived and experienced.

This article is from a Mormon perspective, but I like the description of why we go beyond the Bible and trust in tradition.
m.deseretnews.com/article/865643384/Not-written-in-this-book.html?pg=all

 

[Frankenfurter]

Please consider the following situation:

A bunch of scientists get together to work out a theory of why the dinosaurs became extinct (just an example). They have a long conference with lots of discussions and it lasts for weeks and weeks. Nobody could write it all down. They agree at the end on a document that summarizes their findings.

After they break up, those same people still communicate and over the next few years informally agree on a bunch of other facts associated with the dinosaur theory, but none of this is captured anywhere in a public document. They get together once a year and discuss things and the group collectively grows in their understanding. But again none of that is written down.

So there are two kinds of things here that are both accepted by the group, their scripture, and their Tradition.

In later papers that these folks write, much of the tradition is assumed, but not explicitly described. One can infer that the collective group understood certain things even though it was not written down.

To come back later and judge only what they wrote down the first time is to dismiss the importance of their personal interactions, conversations etc.

Humans don’t record everything. But they would certainly note if someone wrote something that was in disagreement with their collective mutual understanding.

This happens all the time in science which is why I use that example.

 

[JuanFlorencio]

I have a question about Catholic sacred tradition. In 12 years of Catholic grade and high school and 4 years at a Catholic university, I learned all about the importance of the Church’s sacred tradition. Later as I read deeply into the history of mankind, I learned that every civilization has had their sacred traditions. The Aztecs sacrificed young virgins at certain times during the year to assure good rain, crops, etc. a sacred tradition to them. Some of the early native Americans had their sacred traditions according to missionary reports such as digging up their deceased ancestors and feasting on them out of supposed respect for the dead. Granted modern Catholic sacred tradition is more civilized than this. But my question is about trusting tradition itself. What makes it right if your ancestors did it that way? What makes it right if we do things today in the church just because early Christians did it that way? One answer to a prior question I posed said I should trust sacred tradition. I’m confused as usual.

Iaocmo, when you say “sacred tradition” are you including in it “sacred texts” or you distinguish between “sacred texts” and “sacred tradition”?

If by “sacred tradition” you mean every religious behavior of a community (texts included), I guess your question is “Why should we share the faith of our fathers?” Is it?

 

[Gorgias]

]I have a question about Catholic sacred tradition. In 12 years of Catholic grade and high school and 4 years at a Catholic university, I learned all about the importance of the Church’s sacred tradition. Later as I read deeply into the history of mankind, I learned that every civilization has had their sacred traditions. … modern Catholic sacred tradition is more civilized than this. But my question is about trusting tradition itself. What makes it right if your ancestors did it that way?

Not to be rude, but if you’re holding up “Catholic sacred tradition” and comparing it to “a particular civilization’s sacred traditions” – that is, “the stuff that their ancestors did” – then your Catholic education didn’t teach you what “the Church’s sacred tradition”*really *is.

You can read about it in the Catechism starting at about paragraph 74, if you want to know what the Church says about “Sacred Tradition.” The short explanation is this: “Sacred Tradition” doesn’t refer to "what our (Catholic) ancestors did and what they held as the right way to do things. Rather, “Sacred Tradition” is one of the sources of Divine Revelation. We see the “Deposit of Faith” as the information that God gave us – His ‘self-revelation’ – that teaches us about salvation. That self-revelation comes to us from two sources: Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Scripture is that body of writings which we hold to be divinely inspired. Sacred Tradition is that body of knowledge that comes to us from the teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors.

So, “Sacred Tradition” doesn’t have anything to do with what people sometimes call “small-t tradition” (i.e., genuflecting when entering the Church; having a special Christmas or Easter dinner; etc). Rather, “Sacred Tradition” (if you want, “big-T Tradition”) refers to the doctrinal teaching given to us by the Apostles and bishops throughout time and continuing to this very day.

In other words, we trust Sacred Tradition not because it’s “what our ancestors did”, but because it’s God’s revelation to us, given through the teaching of the Church.

Does that help?

 

[Wesrock]

I have a question about Catholic sacred tradition. In 12 years of Catholic grade and high school and 4 years at a Catholic university, I learned all about the importance of the Church’s sacred tradition. Later as I read deeply into the history of mankind, I learned that every civilization has had their sacred traditions. The Aztecs sacrificed young virgins at certain times during the year to assure good rain, crops, etc. a sacred tradition to them. Some of the early native Americans had their sacred traditions according to missionary reports such as digging up their deceased ancestors and feasting on them out of supposed respect for the dead. Granted modern Catholic sacred tradition is more civilized than this. But my question is about trusting tradition itself. What makes it right if your ancestors did it that way? What makes it right if we do things today in the church just because early Christians did it that way? One answer to a prior question I posed said I should trust sacred tradition. I’m confused as usual.

Sacred Tradition and Scripture are apostolic in origin and authoritative. We trust Sacred Tradition as it is the teachings of Jesus and his Apostles, which are Truth. The Church is responsible for keeping and teaching our deposit of faith, and whatever impurities men bring to the table, we know that the Church will be constant and true, as Jesus promised, for example, when he advised that the gates of hell would not prevail against it.

Keep in mind that scripture alludes many times to teachings not directly written down, and exhortations to following teachings presented in person but not written down. Please also keep in mind that any written document in the first century cost a lot more to produce and copy than documents written today, or even a few hundred years ago. Space for the written word was at a premium.

 

[o_mlly]

I have a question about Catholic sacred tradition. In 12 years of Catholic grade and high school and 4 years at a Catholic university, I learned all about the importance of the Church’s sacred tradition. … What makes it right if your ancestors did it that way? What makes it right if we do things today in the church just because early Christians did it that way? One answer to a prior question I posed said I should trust sacred tradition. I’m confused as usual.

Perhaps focusing on just one ancestor – one that made the all important difference would be helpful.

Draw a bell curve – any spread will do. Imagine this is the time line of all human history. At the peak of this curve, Jesus the Christ entered time. In his life, death and resurrection, He conquered sin and death for all the righteous who lived before Him and all the righteous who would live after Him. What He said and through the recollections of those to whom He said it (aided by His Holy Spirit) comprise the core of our Sacred Tradition. Who has improved since on Christ’s message? No one.

 

[laocmo]

There has been mentioned above many references to things not written down but believed and done by Christians over the years as being sacred traditions. Everything I have learned in all my Catholic education was written down. Can someone give me examples of sacred traditions believed by Catholics that are not written down? Is there a body of just verbally passed on traditions in the church. I can’t think of any.

For years my parish church was St. Philomena and I wore a St. Christopher medal for decades. Then I found both the saints associated with these traditions never existed. My church got a new name and I, feeling rather foolish, quit wearing my medal. I still do not trust tradition.

 

[JuanFlorencio]

There has been mentioned above many references to things not written down but believed and done by Christians over the years as being sacred traditions. Everything I have learned in all my Catholic education was written down. Can someone give me examples of sacred traditions believed by Catholics that are not written down? Is there a body of just verbally passed on traditions in the church. I can’t think of any.

For years my parish church was St. Philomena and I wore a St. Christopher medal for decades. Then I found both the saints associated with these traditions never existed. My church got a new name and I, feeling rather foolish, quit wearing my medal. I still do not trust tradition.

Disappointing, wasn’t it? And what were you expecting from wearing your medal?

 

[laocmo]

Disappointing, wasn’t it? And what were you expecting from wearing your medal?

Everything the nuns told me I should expect. To list a few things. I would be more safe in everything I did compared to others who did not wear the medal. Since St. Christopher helped the child Jesus across a raging river, I would be especially safe from drowning. I was very gullible back then. I’ve become very skeptical since of all the things I was taught as a Catholic child. Now it all seems like wishful thinking and complete fantasy.

 

[Frankenfurter]

Everything the nuns told me I should expect. To list a few things. I would be more safe in everything I did compared to others who did not wear the medal. Since St. Christopher helped the child Jesus across a raging river, I would be especially safe from drowning. I was very gullible back then. I’ve become very skeptical since of all the things I was taught as a Catholic child. Now it all seems like wishful thinking and complete fantasy.

newadvent.org/cathen/03728a.htm
The existence of a martyr St. Christopher cannot be denied, as was sufficiently shown by the Jesuit Nicholas Serarius, in his treatise on litanies, “Litaneutici” (Cologne, 1609), and by Molanus in his history of sacred pictures, “De picturis et imaginibus sacris” (Louvain, 1570).

 

[JuanFlorencio]

Everything the nuns told me I should expect. To list a few things. I would be more safe in everything I did compared to others who did not wear the medal. Since St. Christopher helped the child Jesus across a raging river, I would be especially safe from drowning. I was very gullible back then. I’ve become very skeptical since of all the things I was taught as a Catholic child. Now it all seems like wishful thinking and complete fantasy.

But now you have gone to the other extreme. You need to work on those big oscillations to become mature. It requires hard work, and it is ok if you have your doubts, but be serious and study and analyze extensively the topics that confuse you. Take your time.