Question on "Triumph: The Power and the Glory of the Catholic Church"

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yinekka said:
Hesychios,

What about that list of Whoppers you posted about or at least a link to them.
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The “street” to which Hesychios was referring must be very narrow and out of the way. I googled the phrase and got exactly one response – this thread.
 
DaveBj said:
The “street” to which Hesychios was referring must be very narrow and out of the way. I googled the phrase and got exactly one response – this thread.
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The streets are not the internet. If I was talking about internet discussions I would have stated as much.

Going back to the original post, there was a request for opinions on the book, and I gave mine. You don’t have to like it, and you don’t have to get all defensive about it either. This thread is not about me or you, it’s about the book.

If you want to promote it, you are most welcome to do so. But I personally think that the author lacks credibility, and any budding apologists out there planning to use authors like Crocker for their own knowledge base are going to be lacking in a well rounded knowledge of their own church. And the poor sources will become obvious when someone embarrasses them in a vigorous discussion. That happens too often in these forums.

Now I offered some suggestions of what I thought were good decent publishers and authors known for their scholarship, because I was asked to by someone sincerely interested in learning more. I didn’t have to do that but it was the right thing to do.

He doesn’t have to read tripe and neither do you. There are good Catholic publishers and authors who will serve you well. If you want to restrict yourself to authors like Crocker and publishers like TAN you will have only yourself to blame.

My involvement with this thread is done.
 
Hesychios said:
The streets are not the internet. If I was talking about internet discussions I would have stated as much.

Going back to the original post, there was a request for opinions on the book, and I gave mine. You don’t have to like it, and you don’t have to get all defensive about it either. This thread is not about me or you, it’s about the book.

If you want to promote it, you are most welcome to do so. But I personally think that the author lacks credibility, and any budding apologists out there planning to use authors like Crocker for their own knowledge base are going to be lacking in a well rounded knowledge of their own church. And the poor sources will become obvious when someone embarrasses them in a vigorous discussion. That happens too often in these forums.

Now I offered some suggestions of what I thought were good decent publishers and authors known for their scholarship, because I was asked to by someone sincerely interested in learning more. I didn’t have to do that but it was the right thing to do.

He doesn’t have to read tripe and neither do you. There are good Catholic publishers and authors who will serve you well. If you want to restrict yourself to authors like Crocker and publishers like TAN you will have only yourself to blame.

My involvement with this thread is done.
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I am neither promoting nor denigrating the book. I have read it, and I am aware that it is a popular history, rather than a scholarly one. You claim that the author made “whoppers,” and you have been asked twice to produce evidence of those "whoppers, and so far you have failed to do so. In the interests of scholarly discourse, it is probably well that you have chosen to withdraw.
 
AnthonyJ said:
The book by Crocker is very anti-Orthodox. He celebrates the sacking of Constantinople by the Crusaders in 1204 and even makes the suggestion the date of the sacking should be a feast day in the Roman Catholic Church.

This goes against everything Blessed Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI are trying to accomplish with our Orthodox brethren.
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Hi Anthony,

Can you give me the page number in regard to the suggestion that the sacking of Constantinople should be made into a feast day?

Thanks,
Joel
 
AnthonyJ said:
The book by Crocker is very anti-Orthodox. He celebrates the sacking of Constantinople by the Crusaders in 1204 and even makes the suggestion the date of the sacking should be a feast day in the Roman Catholic Church.

This goes against everything Blessed Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI are trying to accomplish with our Orthodox brethren.
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MusicforMovies said:
Hi Anthony,

Can you give me the page number in regard to the suggestion that the sacking of Constantinople should be made into a feast day?

Thanks,
Joel
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Someone is pulling our leg, which is a euphemism for . . . well, we all know what it’s a euphemism for.

I just scanned the chapter on the Crusades, and Crocker nowhere suggested that the sacking of Constantinople be made into a feast day. He did say that the sacking of Byzantium is regarded as a scandal, but it shouldn’t be, given that the Byzantines were schismatics, and given the fact that "from the beginning of the faith Christians had been at either sword’s point or sword’s hilt.

With regard to “Crocker’s whoppers,” whatever street they may live on, when I have more time (i.e., not tonight) I’ll hunt up some reviews of the book and see if they can shed any light on the "whoppers’ " address.
 
The book by Crocker is very anti-Orthodox. He celebrates the sacking of Constantinople by the Crusaders in 1204 and even makes the suggestion the date of the sacking should be a feast day in the Roman Catholic Church.

Did you make your “anti Orthodox” judgement on this one sentence in the book or were there other things Crocker wrote which contributed to this judgement? If so, what were they?

I have read through the Constantinople part of the book but couldn’t find what you claimed. On what page/s did you read this?

The closest I could find was"The Crusaders besieged Constantinople, conquered it, and sacked it as just and condign punishment." This says to me that it was the Crusaders opinion, rather than Crocker’s opinion that the sacking was “just and condign punishment.” Chapter 9 *The Crusades *elaborates why the Crusaders may have held this opinion. I could find nothing about “the date of the sacking should be a feast day in the Roman Catholic Church.”
 
As I said I would do, I read perhaps a dozen reviews of the book, and here is my report. None of the reviewers brought forth any lies (“whoppers”) that Crocker told in the book. The main criticism is that his zeal for the Catholic Church sometimes overcomes what [they think] should be moderation in expression.

But no “whoppers.”
 
Thank you for the replies everyone. I began the book, though had to go on a bit of hiatus because of midterms :(. I’ll be starting it again. So far, I am happy with it and hope it will be an introduction to being more learned about general Church history.

~ Pius :knight1:
 
Just to add my opinion on Triumph. I bought it a few years back, thinking it would be a good read. I could barely put it down. Highly recommend it :D, coming from a Catholic convert of 6 years. Granted it’s not scholarly, however, but for a popular read on Catholic history, it can’t be beat. I had too much fun reading this book. As much unbiased as a historian can be, but without being overtly PC. Very refreshing. Will remain in my library for a long time to come.

Chantal
 
All the best with your exams and remember, studying for and doing your best in your exams is where God wants you to be at this time. :).
 
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