Question on what my CCD teacher told me

[CatholicZ09]

Okay, so in CCD class today we were talking about the Nicene/Apostle’s Creed and when it gets to “He descended into hell and on the third day he rose again.” So, my CCD teacher said that before Jesus descended into hell, all the good souls were still in hell because of Adam and Eve’s sin which caused the gates of Heaven to be closed. So, Moses, and any prophets of God or any good souls who abided in the law still went to hell. I had a hard time understanding that. Is this true? Did even the good souls go to hell? Then, she said when Jesus descended into hell, he took all the good souls up to heaven with him and opened the doors to heaven. Is this true?

 

[Mintaka]

“Hell” in the Apostle’s Creed is the English translation of “Hades”. “Hades” was the Greek translation of the Hebrew “Sheol”. And Sheol was a very broad term meaning something like “the afterlife” or “the underworld” or “where dead people go”, as well as “where bad dead people go and get punished”.

Basically, it would seem that before Christ died for us, all the faithful dead went to a place of waiting which was called Sheol or Abraham’s Bosom. During the days when Jesus was dead, He went to this place of waiting and preached the Gospel to the faithful dead, and then led them out of it. We’re told in one of the Gospels that some of these holy men and women rose from the dead and walked around Jerusalem and were seen by many; everybody else went straight to Heaven.

This is why the Patriarchs and holy people of Israel have saints’ days, if you look around enough, and there have been churches dedicated to them. (For example, in Dublin there was a famous chapel of St. Adam and St. Eve.) There also used to be a great many pieces of art showing Jesus “harrowing Hell” (preaching or leading them out), or of Jesus rising from the dead, with the patriarchs progressing out behind him, or of Jesus greeting Adam and Eve, or his foster-father Joseph, or his cousin John the Baptist.

It’s possible that the place of waiting was somehow connected to the place of punishment we call Hell, as depicted in Dante’s Inferno. (And a lot of those paintings, where Jesus stomps on demons while preaching.) But it wasn’t Hell per se; the Patriarchs weren’t being punished. You can see that in Jesus’ parable about the rich man and the poor man begging at his gate.

 

[erikd]

Okay, so in CCD class today we were talking about the Nicene/Apostle’s Creed and when it gets to “He descended into hell and on the third day he rose again.” So, my CCD teacher said that before Jesus descended into hell, all the good souls were still in hell because of Adam and Eve’s sin which caused the gates of Heaven to be closed. So, Moses, and any prophets of God or any good souls who abided in the law still went to hell. I had a hard time understanding that. Is this true? Did even the good souls go to hell? Then, she said when Jesus descended into hell, he took all the good souls up to heaven with him and opened the doors to heaven. Is this true?

Hi CatholicZ09, you have every right to feel uncomfortable about your teacher’s explanation. Jesus descended to the realm of the dead, or as St. Peter’s called it the “spirits in prison” (1 Peter 3:19). This is different than the realm of the condemned who are to remain condemned for all eternity. Here is the official Catechism explanation:

*632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was “raised from the dead” presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.478 This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ’s descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.479

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.480 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:481 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."482 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.483 *

478 Acts 3:15; Rom 8:11; 1 Cor 15:20; cf. Heb 13:20.
479 Cf. 1 Pet 3:18-19.
480 Cf. Phil 2:10; Acts 2:24; Rev 1:18; Eph 4:9; Pss 6:6; 88:11-13.
481 Cf. Ps 89:49; 1 Sam 28:19; Ezek 32:17-32; Lk 16:22-26.
482 Roman Catechism I, 6, 3.
483 Cf. Council of Rome (745): DS 587; Benedict XII, Cum dudum (1341): DS 1011; Clement VI, Super quibusdam (1351): DS 1077; Council of Toledo IV (625): DS 485; Mt 27:52-53.

 

[erikd]

One more thing that should be considered is that the realm of the dead was different for those who will be saved as opposed to those who are doomed for eternity. The best example of this is from the Gospel of Luke:

*19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20 "But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
21 "desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 "Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
25 "But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 ‘And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house,
28 ‘for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’
29 "Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’
30 "And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
31 "But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ " *
Luke 16:19-31

 

[Texas_Roofer]

One more thing that should be considered is that the realm of the dead was different for those who will be saved as opposed to those who are doomed for eternity. The best example of this is from the Gospel of Luke:

*19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20 "But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
21 "desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 "Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
25 "But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 ‘And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
27 "Then he said, **‘I beg you ***therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house,
28 ‘for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’
29 "Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’
30 "And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
31 "But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ "
Luke 16:19-31

An intercession from the dead about the living, I use this and Macabees 2:12

• 42 Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. 43 He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; 44 **for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. ** 45 But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. 46 Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin. *

An intercession from the living about the dead, to teach purgatory.

 

[crazzeto]

This is a simplistic, not entirly accurate translation. Certainly no souls where in heaven, but they were not buring and suffering in hell. They were in Hades or “the place of the dead”. This is where Christ went. What specifically he did there, we don’t know. What we do know is this part of the Creed(s) are meant to affirm to us in absolute terms that Christ suffered true death. One early heresy (I’m sure it’s around again) is that Christ was never truely man (because he was God) there for he could never have truely suffered death. This is false, every bit as false as the flip side of this heresy (which I have seen manifested recently) that Christ was never truely God. Either of these is a heresy trying to seperate the divine and human natures of Christ.

Christ was truely God, and truely man. He truely suffered death. This is what “decended into hell [the place of the dead]” is supposed to mean.

 

[BerhaneSelassie]

The hell of the Creed does refer to Hades or Sheol, the part Jesus went to is called “Paradise” thats why Jesus said “You will be with me in paradise”. Jesus in his parable of Luke 16 of Lazarus and the rich man says there was a “great chasm is established to prevent anyone from crossing”. Jesus only took the people on the righteous side of the chasm, the people on the other side will be dumped into Hell, the lake of fire at the end of time.