Question relating to fertility clinics

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Gwyn

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Please advise if artificial insemination(hubby’s sperm) / fertility clinic procedures… are right or wrong?
I have read the vatican website but …
A brief background why I ask -

10 years ago (a year before I got married) I was told I may never be able to have a child due to a uterine fibroid.

And since I had other side effects, as a result of the fibroid, was put on the pill. When I confessed this was told it was OK since it was for my health.

A year after getting married I went off the pill and then had other problems and was told I had PCOs and was given hormones.

Went to my OB/GYN saying we really wanted to have a baby so she did a HSG (blasted dye in, to check if tubes were blocked) and told us with this it was possible to get pregnant.

Lo and behold we were pregnant right after and had DS, however it was a rough pregnancy and the fibroid doubled in size and had to have a C-section. Was told do not get pregnant … until the fibroid was surgically removed (now at over 10sonometers). 2 years later had an embolization done this shrunk it down to ~6sonometers and we once again started trying to conceive.

However DS(our miracle baby) is now 6, and my OB/GYN has refered us to a fertility clinic, which at first I refused because of the tests involved.

And again asked for an HSG, however she said it was best the fertility clinic did this and we should consider artificial insemination (hubby’s sperm)

We have an apptmt on Thursday with the fertility clinic and I really need to know this.
We are also meeting with our pastor tomorrow.

Thanks for your advice.
Please keep us in your prayers.
 
The catechism speaks on this:

2377 Techniques involving only the married couple (homologous artificial insemination and fertilization) …remain morally unacceptable. They dissociate the sexual act from the procreative act. The act which brings the child into existence is no longer an act by which two persons give themselves to one another, but one that “entrusts the life and identity of the embryo into the power of doctors and biologists and establishes the domination of technology over the origin and destiny of the human person. Such a relationship of domination is in itself contrary to the dignity and equality that must be common to parents and children.” 168 “Under the moral aspect procreation is deprived of its proper perfection when it is not willed as the fruit of the conjugal act, that is to say, of the specific act of the spouses’ union … Only respect for the link between the meanings of the conjugal act and respect for the unity of the human being make possible procreation in conformity with the dignity of the person.” 169

2378 A child is not something owed to one, but is a gift. The “supreme gift of marriage” is a human person. A child may not be considered a piece of property, an idea to which an alleged “right to a child” would lead. In this area, only the child possesses genuine rights: the right “to be the fruit of the specific act of the conjugal love of his parents,” and “the right to be respected as a person from the moment of his conception.” 170 "

That sums it up
 
Please check out the Pope Paul VI institute, from what I have heard, they have better success rates than invitro, and everything they do is within the parameters of Catholic Teaching. www.popepaulvi.com
 
Ditto on www.popepaulvi.com. Dr. Hilgers and staff are wonderful. Although not related to fertility, he is treating me for a hormonal imbalance that was discovered with labwork that he ordered and that most other doctors don’t perform. The institute is an oasis. He has also trained doctors who practice in other parts of the country.
 
I can’t state it any better than the CCC, but as someone in a similar situation (I have PCOS) I can say that there are other options besides IUI…Have you talked to your doctor about some of the more recent discoveries in PCOS treatment? I take Metformin to counteract the high levels of Insulin that I have because of the PCOS…this is a simple blood test and the medication can help prevent you from becoming diabetic later…and while the medicine helps get the high insulin levels under control, you’re natural female hormones kick into gear so that you ovulate. If you’ve been diagnosed with PCOS then there is a pretty small chance that IUI or any other ART will help…women with PCOS generally do not ovulate and when they do its few and far between…my docs aren’t sure if I’ve EVER ovualted all because of high fasting insulin levels that are preventing the production of the hormones that make you ovulate…
Have another PCOS evaluation with the bloodwork, find out about medicinal treatments, and see if those help the body to work the way that God intended…

Its hard to go through infertility, we’ve being trying for about 16 months and its not easy…and while the artificial means of conceiving are tempting…knowing that they are outside the realm of the morally acceptable makes them a lot less tempting for me…I’ve actually had a few people accuse me of not being open to life because I will not consider these options…that kind of hurts…but I try to remember that I am called to follow God’s will and not my own…it doesn’t always make it easier, but sometimes it reminds me what is expected of me…

If you need to talk to someone else who is dealing with infertility issues let me know…I’d be happy to chat with you…

God Bless you and keep you,
Jamie
 
Thanks for all your answers.

I am in Canada, however have emailed Pope Paul VI for advice and to find out if there is something similar in Canada.

Lifeisbeautiful your post just spoke to us and gave us the answer we already suspected.

About PCO’s I do not think I have the problem ( 4 months no cycle then 3 months no cycle…needed progesterone to bring on cycle) it was caused by the pill. Then I conceived DS and right after everything was back to normal. In fact 4 weeks after ds was born I started with menorrahgia probs (even though I nursed for 18 months) and have been taking the strongest dose for Naproxen but this still results in anemia.

Anyways we will go to our apptmt at the clinic and anything that I feel is not right I will refuse to have done.

Now I am wondering if the HSG is acceptable, instead of dye they would probably use air to open up the tubes. A painful test but the last time it had a beautiful outcome (my son)
 
I really hope that things workout for you! Please let us know!
 
I recently had an HSG. My doctor is a NFP-only physician who has studied at the Creighton (or maybe it was the PPVI) institute. If it were not acceptable, there would be no way he would do it.

You’re right, it is painful. But it is not against teaching that I (or my doctor) know of.

Good luck!
 
Just to clarify, Donum Vitae (issued by the man formerly known as Cardinal Ratzinger) does describe situations in which homologous artificial insemination can be MORALLY used. Unfortunately, the catechism does not go to this level of detail. The basic fact is that the procedure mus be assisting the natural marital act and not replacing it. So don’t rule out all medical intervention in order to help you approve pregnancy. If this type of artificial insemination would help you to achieve pregnancy it can be done morally.

There are further details on the US Bishops Website.

God bless.
 
An update
We went to the apptmt yesterday.
At the same time I had contacted the clinic in Toronto that PopePaulVI institute recommended and they are booked solid till January, will be making the apptmt.
We kept the apptmt yesterday because I am scheduled for surgery in October to have the fibroid removed and if that happens I will not be able to try get pregnant for a year after or fear of the uterus rupturing…
Yesterday DH & I had blood work done. I have an ultrasound and histosonogram (hsg) scheduled. This will better help decide if the fibroid should come out before a pregnancy or… Now at the same time DH was asked to give a sperm sample (We were against) this but considering after 4 years of trying… they want to cover all possiblities. Waiting for an answer from the Catholic clinic as to how this can be accomplished without …
Will hope and pray for the best.
We find out on the 11th of October whether I should proceed with the surgery or not as well if we have a problem.
 
Hey- I go to the PPVI institute myself and they truly are wonderful. Dr. Hilgers found insulin resistance in me, endometriosis and pelvic adhesions. I’ve been through traditional infertility and this is far better, IMO. I’ve had a PCOS diagnosis since 1992 and Dr. Hilgers is the only doctor who ever said, “I think we can fix that.” Plus, my hormones were too low to sustain a pregnancy and thus I’ve had at least one confirmed miscarriage. I could have done IUI after IUI and IVF and still would probably not have a baby.

I highly recommend asking the clinic they referred you to about getting started using the Creighton method of charting before your appointment. They will want to see 2 months of charting anyway so it will speed you up if you get started now (Versus starting charting after your appt. in January). Also, you might ask them to put you on their cancellation list. Though I go to the Institute regularly, I had to make an actual appointment and his next opening wasn’t until January either. In my case, they had a cancellation and I can go in two weeks. If your schedule is somewhat flexible, I’d give it a shot.

Good luck. I hope your TTC journey is a short one.
 
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Gwyn:
Now at the same time DH was asked to give a sperm sample (We were against) this but considering after 4 years of trying… they want to cover all possiblities. Waiting for an answer from the Catholic clinic as to how this can be accomplished without …
Click to expand...
There is a silastic sheath that can be used for semen collection. (If a couple pokes some holes in it with a pin.) The man applys the sheath and the couple has intercourse. Then the fluid can be emptied into a specimen container and the lab can run the tests.

I would go into more detail about why the silicone sheath makes this an option, but I’m not sure what I should and shouldn’t mention on this family friendly site. But basically, it needs to be silicone, latex won’t work.

Contact the National Catholic Bioethics Center for further info: www.ncbcenter.org 215-877-2660.
 
Thanks everyone for the advice, information…
Last week, I had my ultrasound and this afternoon I have the sonohysterogram, so hopefully after that I will conceive and not go for the surgery…

Please say a pray for us. I have left it in our Lord’s hands, whether we have another child or not.
 
Well I just got a call from the fertility clinic, have to do another blood test. As my thyroid levels are low.
Yikes, I had my thyroid removed last year because of nodules and it took over a year to get my thyroid levels stabilized. And now this…no wonder I am always tired (thought it was the anemia).
And here I was hoping to join the Pregnant Clubhouse.
Well please pray and I will continue to pray and hope for the best. Thanks.
 
Gwyn,

I just saw your postings on infertility treatments and wanted to tell you that I’ll be praying for you. I have been through it all myself as well with PCOS and know where you are. Just wanted to reassure you that HSG is perfectly licit (almost all testing is) and that you have two choices for a semen analysis. One is to take the regular condom that the clinic would give you and poke holes in it with a needle to make the act still open to life. Another is to ask for a lab slide and cover slip. After relations, have your husband to touch the tip of his penis to the slide and immediately put the cover slip on and give it to the lab that way. It isn’t as complete an analysis, but it should at least be able to detect if his sperm are healthy. Since you were pregnant once before, he must have something working okay on his end!

Good luck.

Jennifer
co-moderator, Catholic-fertility @ yahoogroups.
 
Thanks Jenn!

Actually I have just returned from the clinic and am really upset. The Dr was upset with me because DH had not done the sperm test and when I said we had no intention of doing it, as I was there to detemine if it was advisable to go ahead with the myomectomy in 2 weeks ( that would mean no getting preg for 1 yr) or it would be advisable to try & get preg. … He went on to say he was a fertility dr and he treats patients as a couple… I also said to him that since we had DS, DH had to be normal and he goes that was 6 yrs ago … things can happen.
Anyways I have just gone ahead and cancelled my surgery. I did have the HSG 2 weeks ago so am hoping for the best.
I had also left it in DH’s hands to make the apptmt with the Catholic fertility clinic (refered by PopePaul VI) of course he has not done that. Well he is the one pushing for another child. I am happy with having just DS, and we have been trying for 4 years, if it happens great
 
Gwyn,

Sometimes doctors are very stubborn in their ways (just like the rest of us at times!). I’m sorry that this doctor didn’t have better bedside manner with you, though. I went through a similar frustration. I had years of NFP charts to show my ob/gyn how I wasn’t ovulating, but they wouldn’t start treating me with clomid until my husband got checked out. In the end, they are trying to protect you because they don’t want to “waste” time treating one patient when the other needs help as well. But in your case, it seems pretty clear that the doctor needed to give you some focus and not worry so much about your husband.

Good luck getting your husband to make the appointment. If he’s anything like mine… 🙂 🙂

Hang in there.

Jennifer
 
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