Question

[Chaldean_Rite]

If Sola Scriptura (bible alone) were true, why does the Church need to teach the angels?

Ephesians 3:9-10
[9] And to enlighten all men, that they may see what is the dispensation of the mystery which hath been hidden from eternity in God, who… created all things:
[10] That the manifold wisdom of God may be made known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places through the church

Can’t they read?

 

[bogeydogg]

Sols Scripture does not mean that the only source of any information anywhere in the world is the Bible. For example I would never try to divine form the Bible how to make a laptop because Bible says nothing about that lap top. But what the Bible teaches it teaches with absolute authority, and the appeal to Sola Scriptura is that in any controversy about the faith the Bible is the final arbiter of that argument and not tradition or Church teaching because those things have contradicted themselves in the past.

For example Pope Paul IV declared no salvation outside of the Church and Pope Benedict XVI declared that anyone who is baptized, receives communion and accept Christ as Lord is saved.

In such a conflict the premise of Sola Scriptura is that the Bible need to appealed too to settle the controversy.

God Bless

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Sols Scripture does not mean that the only source of any information anywhere in the world is the Bible. For example I would never try to divine form the Bible how to make a laptop because Bible says nothing about that lap top. But what the Bible teaches it teaches with absolute authority, and the appeal to Sola Scriptura is that in any controversy about the faith the Bible is the final arbiter of that argument and not tradition or Church teaching because those things have contradicted themselves in the past.

For example Pope Paul IV declared no salvation outside of the Church and Pope Benedict XVI declared that anyone who is baptized, receives communion and accept Christ as Lord is saved.

In such a conflict the premise of Sola Scriptura is that the Bible need to appealed too to settle the controversy.

God Bless

I completely disagree with everything you spoke above, but you are avoiding my original post.

Why does the Church, the one spouse of Christ, need to teach the angels? Can’t they read English or Greek or Aramaic or any of the bible translations out there?

But to go ahead and correct your above statements about SS, I’ll have to refer to:
catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/sola.htm

and your “apparent” contradiction of terms between the two pontiff stems from your mis-understanding of the meaning of “saved” but that is a different thread.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Sols Scripture does not mean that the only source of any information anywhere in the world is the Bible. For example I would never try to divine form the Bible how to make a laptop because Bible says nothing about that lap top. But what the Bible teaches it teaches with absolute authority, and the appeal to Sola Scriptura is that in any controversy about the faith the Bible is the final arbiter of that argument and not tradition or Church teaching because those things have contradicted themselves in the past.

For example Pope Paul IV declared no salvation outside of the Church and Pope Benedict XVI declared that anyone who is baptized, receives communion and accept Christ as Lord is saved.

In such a conflict the premise of Sola Scriptura is that the Bible need to appealed too to settle the controversy.

God Bless

Those two statements do not contradict each other in any way whatsoever.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

If Sola Scriptura (bible alone) were true, why does the Church need to teach the angels?

Ephesians 3:9-10
[9] And to enlighten all men, that they may see what is the dispensation of the mystery which hath been hidden from eternity in God, who… created all things:
[10] That the manifold wisdom of God may be made known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places through the church

Can’t they read?

I see your point, but I’d think the Protestant would argue this isn’t about salvation per se for the Angels (they don’t need salvation), so Sola Scriptura wouldn’t apply to them. Thus this is in reference to something else, like a revealing of a mystery but not one involving Christian belief or living. The Angels must have been awaiting to see just how God’s plan of salvation, through the Incarnation and reconciliation of all nations would come about. It must have been the greatest suspense movie every devised from their view.

 

[twinc]

I see your point, but I’d think the Protestant would argue this isn’t about salvation per se for the Angels (they don’t need salvation), so Sola Scriptura wouldn’t apply to them. Thus this is in reference to something else, like a revealing of a mystery but not one involving Christian belief or living. The Angels must have been awaiting to see just how God’s plan of salvation, through the Incarnation and reconciliation of all nations would come about. It must have been the greatest suspense movie every devised from their view.

yes Christ incarnate is/was the mystery and in this wise[mystery]also see Colossians.1:26-27 - twinc

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

I see your point, but I’d think the Protestant would argue this isn’t about salvation per se for the Angels (they don’t need salvation), so Sola Scriptura wouldn’t apply to them. Thus this is in reference to something else, like a revealing of a mystery but not one involving Christian belief or living. The Angels must have been awaiting to see just how God’s plan of salvation, through the Incarnation and reconciliation of all nations would come about. It must have been the greatest suspense movie every devised from their view.

I wasn’t exactly being serious about Angels not being able to read but rather that even in the angels, in their perfect knowledge, still submit to the teaching authority of the Church as this passage points out, which makes the premise of SS a big and utter fail.

 

[promethius]

For example Pope Paul IV declared no salvation outside of the Church and Pope Benedict XVI declared that anyone who is baptized, receives communion and accept Christ as Lord is saved.

Hogwash. Having actually read what Pope Benedict said, you are sadly mistaken about there being a conflict.

What Pope Benedict said is that ALL christians are separated catholics insofar as they hold to the doctrinal truth which they inherited from the Catholic church, and thus it is POSSIBLE that they MAY be saved by virtue of this catholicity. He did NOT say that non-catholics will be saved.

 

[sonettegarbin]

If Sola Scriptura (bible alone) were true, why does the Church need to teach the angels?

Ephesians 3:9-10
[9] And to enlighten all men, that they may see what is the dispensation of the mystery which hath been hidden from eternity in God, who… created all things:
[10] That the manifold wisdom of God may be made known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places through the church

Can’t they read?

8 I am the least of all God’s people. Yet, God showed me his kindness by allowing me to *spread the Good News *of the immeasurable wealth of Christ to people who are not Jewish. 9 He allowed me to explain the way this mystery works. God, who created all things, kept it hidden in the past. 10 He did this so that now, through the church, he could let the rulers and authorities in heaven know his infinite wisdom. 11 This was God’s plan for all of history which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 We can go to God with bold confidence through faith in Christ.
Eph 3:8-12 (GW)

Thank you for your question, I only now understood the depth of meaning and revelation in these veres when I studied them critically in many different Bible translations.

Vere 9 and 10 need to be read together with verse 8 to get the full meaning of what is said.

i.e. that the gospel of Jesus Christ preached to Jews and Gentiles alike would constitute the Church (bride of Christ). Until then it was a mystery, a plan kept hidden from principalities and powers in heavenly places. … since revealed, SO THAT NOW - GOD’S MANIFOLD WISDOM MIGHT BE MADE KNOWN to principalities and powers in heavenly places

 

[sonettegarbin]

I see your point, but I’d think the Protestant would argue this isn’t about salvation per se for the Angels (they don’t need salvation), so Sola Scriptura wouldn’t apply to them. .

Hi Catholic Dude;6887020, why drag the Protestants into this query It read as a genuine Catholic question. Were you or are you a Protestant to know so much about them - what or how or when or even if they know God.

Good Catholics know to practice LOVE they neighbour. Quit this Protestant bashing on every Forum. it is very UNPLEASANT TO HAVE TO READ SUCH UNPLEASANT SEARCHING FOR TRASH EACH AND EVERY TIME ON ALMOST EVERY FORUM. With what authority do you and others Bash Protestants, with what superior knowledge I would like to know - Holy Spirit inspired like them very Happy Clappy Christians discussed on Forum? - why not bash ‘Catholic’ baby killers for a change or perverts or something worthwhile like people causing accidents talking on cellphones pretending to be holier than thou Christians. . For heavens sake lets keep it Catholic for edification sake!

 

[awatkins69]

Hi Catholic Dude;6887020, why drag the Protestants into this query It read as a genuine Catholic question. Were you or are you a Protestant to know so much about them - what or how or when or even if they know God.

Good Catholics know to practice LOVE they neighbour. Quit this Protestant bashing on every Forum. it is very UNPLEASANT TO HAVE TO READ SUCH UNPLEASANT SEARCHING FOR TRASH EACH AND EVERY TIME ON ALMOST EVERY FORUM. With what authority do you and others Bash Protestants, with what superior knowledge I would like to know - Holy Spirit inspired like them very Happy Clappy Christians discussed on Forum? - why not bash ‘Catholic’ baby killers for a change or perverts or something worthwhile like people causing accidents talking on cellphones pretending to be holier than thou Christians. . For heavens sake lets keep it Catholic for edification sake!

I don’t think he was bashing them. However, remember, the Catholic faith is true and the protestant one sometimes wrong. Formal heresy is a grave sin. The Church says that. We should point out what the Church teaches, what the protestants teach that is wrong, but do it all with love. Sola Scriptura is a protestant teaching, and so that’s why they’re discussing them.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Hi Catholic Dude;6887020, why drag the Protestants into this query It read as a genuine Catholic question. Were you or are you a Protestant to know so much about them - what or how or when or even if they know God.

Good Catholics know to practice LOVE they neighbour. Quit this Protestant bashing on every Forum. it is very UNPLEASANT TO HAVE TO READ SUCH UNPLEASANT SEARCHING FOR TRASH EACH AND EVERY TIME ON ALMOST EVERY FORUM. With what authority do you and others Bash Protestants, with what superior knowledge I would like to know - Holy Spirit inspired like them very Happy Clappy Christians discussed on Forum? - why not bash ‘Catholic’ baby killers for a change or perverts or something worthwhile like people causing accidents talking on cellphones pretending to be holier than thou Christians. . For heavens sake lets keep it Catholic for edification sake!

Two important things need to be cleared up here:
(1) I didn’t “drag” Protestantism into this, the original post did by asking about Sola Scriptura.

(2) I wasn’t “bashing” Protestants, especially not here. In fact, my response was more of a defense of Protestantism than anything.

All that said, the Catholic Answers Forums are divided up into sections. This very section we are in now is the “Apologetics” section, meaning the focus of all posts should be on defending and explaining Catholic Truth from anyone who would attack it, be they Protestant or not.

You need to calm down buddy.

 

[promethius]

Hi Catholic Dude;6887020, why drag the Protestants into this query It read as a genuine Catholic question. Were you or are you a Protestant to know so much about them - what or how or when or even if they know God.

Good Catholics know to practice LOVE they neighbour. Quit this Protestant bashing on every Forum. it is very UNPLEASANT TO HAVE TO READ SUCH UNPLEASANT SEARCHING FOR TRASH EACH AND EVERY TIME ON ALMOST EVERY FORUM. With what authority do you and others Bash Protestants, with what superior knowledge I would like to know - Holy Spirit inspired like them very Happy Clappy Christians discussed on Forum? - why not bash ‘Catholic’ baby killers for a change or perverts or something worthwhile like people causing accidents talking on cellphones pretending to be holier than thou Christians. . For heavens sake lets keep it Catholic for edification sake!

I have to agree with Catholic Dude. He neither brought protestantism into the discussion, nor did he “bash” protestantism… and for the record, there are MANY, MANY of us who were protestants or, in my case, I was made to attend protestant church services so I could “see my other options”. As such, yes, MANY of us know protestant theology intimately.

Chill out, man, you’re new to the forum, you haven’t even established your credibility and you’re jumping down peopels’ throats for no reason.

 

[sonettegarbin]

If Sola Scriptura (bible alone) were true, why does the Church need to teach the angels?

QUOTE]

Please accept my apology.

The line went “If … why does the Church need to teach the angels?” which to my understanding implied OUR CHURCH, the Catholic Church and as such I experienced the reference to “Protestants” as being a reference to individual members of the Protestant sect of Christianity.

Due to the fact that there are many different interpretations of the Bible in Protestantism it is difficult to discern which branch is meant, especially since not all adhere to Luther, Calvin, Wesley, etc. I think many of the USA Charismatic leaders on TV ie. TBN etc. would probably accept just about any bible interpretation as being a ‘new revelation’.

I believe we harm our chances of evangelising non-Catholic people by generalising when it comes to their faith. – :stretcher:

Even if we, for example, were talking about Buddhists, (which we were not), it would be proactive to say; ‘in Buddhism such and such’. If we fail to be sensitive to other’s belief systems, an individual, reading the post could experience the generalisation as including him/her/them, overriding their own personal belief and therefore intrusive and offensive. Same as I did. Sorry for my incorrect interpretation.

My prayer is that all should come to the knowledge of God in Christ Jesus, irrespective of their present profession of faith.

Grant, Jesus Christ, that I may know Your mind. That I may think with Your mind. That I may see things as You see them. The end You would attain. The means by which You would attain it. That I may feel about things as You feel about them. That I may use them as You would have me use them. That I may be what You want me to be. That I may do what You want me to do. That I may endure what You want me to endure because You want it. Because I want what you want, in the way You want it, as you Yourself would do it, and endure it were You in my place.