Questioning the Church's Interpretation of why God gave us sex

[Keevin]

I know many people must have thought of this argument but i must reiterate it. The Church syas God gave us sex to give life. I don’t see any reason to doubt that. It says God also gave us sex to express love, fine wiht that too. Furthermore It says that God commands us only to have sex within marriage, I think that is a beautiful thing. But doesn’t the fact that it is pleasurable mean that God gave it to us to give/recieve pleasure as well. I would add as a side note that while I am not sexually active I write this post in defence of my parents who only have me, their one child. My mother had her tubes tied long ago to prevent another pregnancy because there was a 65% chance of her dying. I say that sex within the bounds marriage that does not bear children should not be regarded as sinful on the basis that it fulfills two of the churches reasons for why God gave us sex; why must people who do not want children be prevented from partaking in the greatest expression of love between them?

 

[Keevin]

Also if I disagree witht he church si it “alright.” If not how do I fix it because I can’t force myself to believe soemthign that I don’t?

 

[Keevin]

As another (name removed by moderator)lication of my post the beliefs on birth control are thrown out the window. The churches teaching on ABC (Artifical Birth Control) bring to mind an interesting anicdote. My uncle, “Andy” has a rather large family. He is disabled and can’t work and can not provide for his family. The government now takes care of his children. God is not providing for these children, a government program is that should not even exist because it is abused so much. At the least it should have an agency to make sure people are not abusing it (as I have several cases where friends and family are abusing it.)

 

[Vincent]

The greatest expression of marital love involves total self-donation. That’s what the conjugal act means: “I give my *all *to you.” The intensity of sexual pleasure signifies the union in which spouses give themselves to each other.

And what’s especially given in the conjugal act? One’s fertility.

If the spouses willfully hold back their fertility then this beautiful expression of love is reduced to a lie. Having pleasure on the basis of deception isn’t an act of love: it’s using one another.

 

[Keevin]

What if you can’t care for a child?

You are making assumptions about why we have the pleasure, you are saying that this pleasure was expressly created to be a part of giving life to a child which is not necessarily true. You may be right about what the pleasure signifies but read on.

Also love is expressly given in the conjugal act as well, not only fertility.

As well, what if you don’t have fertility to give?

Does this mean that you ALWAYS must give fertility?

What if it is enough to give sex itself wihtin marriage to be said you are giving all.

A wise man once said Let there be Spaces in your Togetherness, people may not give everything to eahc other such as their time if they are fighting, but they still love each other, we may also postulate that if the witholding of fertility is mutual you are not witholding at all but rather giving your opinons and still sharing yourself wiht that person by chosing not to concieve. If you are giving all to them but decide not to make use fo that, you are still giving it to them.

 

[Vincent]

Keevin:

What if you can’t care for a child?

Then don’t engage in the conjugal act during times of fertility. It’s called Natural Family Planning. God didn’t intend that spouses be able to conceive all of the time.

You are making assumptions about why we have the pleasure, you are saying that this pleasure was expressly created to be a part of giving life to a child which is not necessarily true. You may be right about what the pleasure signifies but read on.

I don’t know how you’re coming to that conclusion, but just for the sake of argument, if there wasn’t any pleasure attached to procreation, how motivated would you be about having sex?

Also love is expressly given in the conjugal act as well, not only fertility.

It can’t be denied that the giving of one’s fertility is built into the meaning of the conjugal act; otherwise, why the fuss about contraception and sterilization?

As well, what if you don’t have fertility to give?

Infertile through no fault of their own, or when the couples actively sterilize the procreative potential of the conjugal act? The former isn’t a problem: while the conjugal act is ordered to the making of babies, God didn’t intend the act to be successful at procreation all of the time.

Does this mean that you ALWAYS must give fertility?

That’s what the conjugal act is by definition: procreative and unitive. Your immediate motive might be pleasure but the act is intrinsically ordered toward the unique gift of self that may bring about new life.

What if it is enough to give sex itself wihtin marriage to be said you are giving all.

Just “giving” sex doesn’t even begin to address the question as to what sex is all about. Sex itself means something. See my answer above.

A wise man once said Let there be Spaces in your Togetherness, people may not give everything to eahc other such as their time if they are fighting, but they still love each other, we may also postulate that if the witholding of fertility is mutual you are not witholding at all but rather giving your opinons and still sharing yourself wiht that person by chosing not to concieve. If you are giving all to them but decide not to make use fo that, you are still giving it to them.

If you’re speaking within the context of the conjugal act here, then what you’ve written sounds like a contradiction: the mutual withholding of fertility is not withholding fertility.

Therein lies the problem with contraception and sterilization. The very language of the conjugal act expresses total self-donation yet actively withholding one’s fertility negates that language at the same time. In speech we call that a lie.

 

[WhatIf]

Keevin:

What if you can’t care for a child?

You are making assumptions about why we have the pleasure, you are saying that this pleasure was expressly created to be a part of giving life to a child which is not necessarily true. You may be right about what the pleasure signifies but read on.

Also love is expressly given in the conjugal act as well, not only fertility.

As well, what if you don’t have fertility to give?

Does this mean that you ALWAYS must give fertility?

What if it is enough to give sex itself wihtin marriage to be said you are giving all.

A wise man once said Let there be Spaces in your Togetherness, people may not give everything to eahc other such as their time if they are fighting, but they still love each other, we may also postulate that if the witholding of fertility is mutual you are not witholding at all but rather giving your opinons and still sharing yourself wiht that person by chosing not to concieve. If you are giving all to them but decide not to make use fo that, you are still giving it to them.

If God didn’t want a baby to be conceived from the act of having sex, then we wouldn’t be made this way, would we? God made us a sexual human beings, but he also made this sexual act an act that makes a baby and we don’t have the right to take the one without the other. However, if there is some reason why a person can not conceive, they are not committing a sin by having sex within the marital relationship.

Society send a totally different message, so I know that it is hard to imagine life without the use of birth control. Keep studying the subject. There are books out there if you are interested. I don’t know your situation, but sex should be for married people and without the use of artificial birth control methods.

You mentioned “what if you can’t care for them”? Why couldn’t you care for them? Unless it is a case of some sort of disability or something, I don’t know why a person can not care for their children. They may choose gov. help, but that is a choice in this country. It is ashame that it gets abused, but it has nothing to do with whether or not it is ok to use birth control methods. It takes a long time to understand some of these things especially when society sends us an entirely different message. I hope you read up on the subject. Maybe you’ll find something at www.ccli.org

 

[martino]

Keevin, in additoin to the other posts you have completely disregarded the fact that their are natural ways for couples that should not have children to maintain a healthy sex life while avoiding pregnancy at the same time. It is called Natural Family Planning.

 

[misericordie]

WhatIf:

If God didn’t want a baby to be conceived from the act of having sex, then we wouldn’t be made this way, would we? God made us a sexual human beings, but he also made this sexual act an act that makes a baby and we don’t have the right to take the one without the other. However, if there is some reason why a person can not conceive, they are not committing a sin by having sex within the marital relationship.

Society send a totally different message, so I know that it is hard to imagine life without the use of birth control. Keep studying the subject. There are books out there if you are interested. I don’t know your situation, but sex should be for married people and without the use of artificial birth control methods.

You mentioned “what if you can’t care for them”? Why couldn’t you care for them? Unless it is a case of some sort of disability or something, I don’t know why a person can not care for their children. They may choose gov. help, but that is a choice in this country. It is ashame that it gets abused, but it has nothing to do with whether or not it is ok to use birth control methods. It takes a long time to understand some of these things especially when society sends us an entirely different message. I hope you read up on the subject. Maybe you’ll find something at www.ccli.org

Sex between a married man and woman is not just to make babues, but rather to enjoy each other in an intimate way. To be creative in marriage, and well enjoy each other.

 

[ppcpilot]

I take it you are not married? When you are married, and are trying to have children, making love takes on a whole new meaning. When one is on ABC, it definately becomes a pleasure only thing.