Questions about fasting

[SMH_2015]

I read recently that the original days of fasting in the Church were Wednesday & Friday. That made me wonder what exactly the “rules” were. Is it sunrise to sundown? Or for a whole 24 hour period? Is anything allowed besides water (tea, coffee, soda, clear soup)?

Obviously, I’m not talking about the fasting before Communion.

 

[prodromos]

Fasting in the Church is not like that of Muslims during Ramadan, although there are fasts requiring complete abstinence from food and drink such as the morning prior to receiving Holy Communion. Traditional Christian fasting is abstaining from meat, dairy, oil and alcohol and eating less food in general. It usually goes hand in hand with alms giving, where the money saved by eating simple, plain food can be given to the poor. When feast days fall on days which are fasting, then oil and alcohol are permitted and sometimes fish. These guidelines can all be adjusted based on health issues, travelling and type of work through consultation with one’s spiritual father.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Is fasting then defined as both not eating or drinking as well as just abstaining from certain foods?

In my mind, a fast is completely not eating. Abstaining is refraining. But you say that is not the case, yes?

 

[Todd977]

I don’t know what the old fasting rules were but now, at least in the U.S. it simply means eating at least 25% less food on a fast day, as reckoned from midnight to midnight.

From the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops’ website:
When fasting, a person is permitted to eat one full meal. Two smaller meals may also be taken, but not to equal a full meal. (source)

 

[sarah_j]

I read recently that the original days of fasting in the Church were Wednesday & Friday. That made me wonder what exactly the “rules” were. Is it sunrise to sundown? Or for a whole 24 hour period? Is anything allowed besides water (tea, coffee, soda, clear soup)?

Obviously, I’m not talking about the fasting before Communion.

Maybe you are talking about fasting on your own (as opposed to the traditional
definition of ‘fast and abstinence’ ? I know people who fast on
Weds. and Fridays because they say Mary has called us to do that.

Maybe this info will answer your questions. >

Our Lady recommends fasting twice a week: “Fast strictly on Wednesdays and Fridays.” (August 14, 1984)

“The best fast is on bread and water. Through fasting and prayer one can stop wars, one can suspend the natural laws of nature. Works of charity cannot replace fasting… Everyone except the sick, has to fast.” (July 21, 1982)

Fasting takes personal discipline. Start slow, and work your way up to bread and water only. Fasting means that we give up something that we like and offer that sacrifice to God. One can give up sweets, coffee, cigarettes, alcohol, television, etc. But, Our Lady stresses that the best and most powerful fast is on bread and water for a 24 hour period from midnight to midnight. Great graces come from fasting and it can help with situations in your life that seem hopeless. Fr. Slavko always used to be asked how much bread and water one should eat and drink on fast days. His answer was very simple, “as much as you need”. The amount and frequency are not really important, but rather our intention to fast out of love for God.

 

[thistle]

I read recently that the original days of fasting in the Church were Wednesday & Friday. That made me wonder what exactly the “rules” were. Is it sunrise to sundown? Or for a whole 24 hour period? Is anything allowed besides water (tea, coffee, soda, clear soup)?

Obviously, I’m not talking about the fasting before Communion.

Fasting is only required on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. Fasting on any other days is voluntary. There are no rules for voluntary fasting.
Abstaining from meat (different from fasting) is also required on these two days plus the other Fridays in Lent.

With regard to the two required fasting days (Ash Wednesday and Good Friday) you may eat one normal meal and two smaller meals (which together should not exceed a normal meal).

 

[SMH_2015]

Maybe you are talking about fasting on your own (as opposed to the traditional
definition of ‘fast and abstinence’ ? I know people who fast on
Weds. and Fridays because they say Mary has called us to do that.

Apparently it’s from the Didache. Since I came to Catholicism late in life, I assumed “fasting” meant no solid food, period. Like you do before surgery or a colonoscopy.

Thank you, everyone who responded. I think I have a better understanding now.

 

[DaveBj]

I read recently that the original days of fasting in the Church were Wednesday & Friday. That made me wonder what exactly the “rules” were. Is it sunrise to sundown? Or for a whole 24 hour period? Is anything allowed besides water (tea, coffee, soda, clear soup)?

Obviously, I’m not talking about the fasting before Communion.

You may be referring to a comment that I made recently on another thread. As I read thru the Church fathers, I have seen multiple references to the Wednesday and Friday fast, but I have seen no specification (that I remember) on exactly what constituted a fast. This is probably because the people of those times all knew what a fast was, and therefore there was no need to write it down.

I don’t know what the old fasting rules were but now, at least in the U.S. it simply means eating at least 25% less food on a fast day, as reckoned from midnight to midnight.

From the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops’ website:
When fasting, a person is permitted to eat one full meal. Two smaller meals may also be taken, but not to equal a full meal. (source)

Is fasting then defined as both not eating or drinking as well as just abstaining from certain foods?

In my mind, a fast is completely not eating. Abstaining is refraining. But you say that is not the case, yes?

I’m with you, Compline. To me, a fast is no solid food, period, and no nourishing or tasty liquid. One full meal and two snacks isn’t a fast; it’s a one-day diet. But that’s just my understanding of the meaning of the term. I could be wrong. I have been wrong before, and I probably will be again in the future

 

[Vico]

I read recently that the original days of fasting in the Church were Wednesday & Friday. That made me wonder what exactly the “rules” were. Is it sunrise to sundown? Or for a whole 24 hour period? Is anything allowed besides water (tea, coffee, soda, clear soup)?

Obviously, I’m not talking about the fasting before Communion.

Eastern Catholics still observe the Wednesday and Friday abstinence during Lent and three other penitential periods through the year (before Christmas/Theophany, before Pascha = Lent, before feast of Sts. Peter and Paul, before Dormition).

The period is midnight to midnight for the abstinence from meat, dairy, eggs during strict abstinence, or just meat when not strict.

Why Wednesday and Friday? Wednesday is the day of the week of the betrayal by Judas, and Friday is the day of the week of the Crucifixion.

 

[otjm]

I am always a bit amused when discussions start up about fasting, and “bread and water” is brought up.

In Oregon, Bull Run water off the side of Mount Hood is among the more pure sources of water available within the US; and the biscuits from Red Lobster (with the packaged version available at Costco) are an absolute delight - as well as artisan breads from any bakery worth their salt.

Hardly what I would call a sacrifice.

A fast, according to the Church, is one main meal, and two others which together equal a second meal.

One, of course, can be more strict than the Church; and I will leave it to others to determine whether it is the individual who is wiser, or the Church with centuries more experience - and presumably wisdom. However, one venturing into serious spiritual exercises such as strict fasting would be well advised to obtain a spiritual director first; and one should not go “spiritual director shopping” until one finds a director willing to advise willy nilly such practices.

It might be pointed out that the Trappists lead a rather austere lifestyle, and it is only after some serious and long guidance that one of them is allowed to be a hermit - an even more austere lifestyle.

Penance and self-mortification are worthy, and most of us could do with a good dose of it. However, it is easy to go entirely overboard in such matters, to the point of far more harm than good to the individual.

 

[sarah_j]

I am always a bit amused when discussions start up about fasting, and “bread and water” is brought up…

A fast, according to the Church, is one main meal, and two others which together equal a second meal.

One, of course, can be more strict than the Church; and I will leave it to others to determine whether it is the individual who is wiser, or the Church with centuries more experience - and presumably wisdom.

Fasting on bread and water (Black Fast) is a spiritual discipline which goes back to the beginnings of the Church. While a Black Fast is no longer required on fast days,
it is certainly not frowned upon by the Church.

Not long ago the Bishops asked us to fast for Syria and specifically mentioned a Black Fast for those who wanted to follow that type of fast.
usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/global-issues/middle-east/syria/syria-fasting.cfm

There are even bakeries who bake bread especially for Catholics observing a
bread and water fast. Here’s an interesting article on ‘fasting bread’.

americancatholic.org/news/report.aspx?id=4244

 

[otjm]

Fasting on bread and water (Black Fast) is a spiritual discipline which goes back to the beginnings of the Church. While a Black Fast is no longer required on fast days,
it is certainly not frowned upon by the Church.

Not long ago the Bishops asked us to fast for Syria and specifically mentioned a Black Fast for those who wanted to follow that type of fast.
usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/global-issues/middle-east/syria/syria-fasting.cfm

There are even bakeries who bake bread especially for Catholics observing a
bread and water fast. Here’s an interesting article on ‘fasting bread’.

americancatholic.org/news/report.aspx?id=4244

Perhaps I was too subtle.

There is a difference, if you will, between seeking to fast such as you described, and an attitude of how sere a penance one can inflict and endure. It is not so much the physical limitations as it is the mental direction, which can become unhealthy quickly when it is not guided. As I noted, there are certain breads, coupled with fresh water, that I would consider as no hardship in the least. And the fasting bread sounds like one of those which in itself would be a treat. Wish they had given the recipe.

 

[uselessbeggar]

I suspect that none of you is a celiac. If you would care to add some extra penance to your bread and water days, buy gluten and wheat free bread. Even the cost of a loaf is a challenge.

The world needs to fast voluntarily. Then all will be well…

Uselessbeggar

 

[Blind_Didymus]

Just a small note seeing you asked about time:

It really depends on how the day is reckoned according to local custom.
The Romans and the Copts reckon the day from midnight to midnight.
The Byzantines and the Armenians reckon the day from sunrise to sunrise.
The Syrians reckon the day from sunset to sunset (just like the Hebrews/Jews).

So when fasting, each of these traditions reckons when Wednesday &/or Friday is according to their own method for determining when each day begins and ends.

If you talk to the Eastern Churches (when Orthodox or Catholic), you find that fasting traditions are deep and complex yet diverse.
For example, the Ethiopian Church only allows vegan food on all fast days while the Russian Church has seven or eight different levels of fasting to account for varying degrees of importance and handling how to fast when a feast day falls on the same day as fast day. (These are: full abstention from all food, strict fast [bread, fruits & vegetables], vegan food prepared without oil, vegan food prepared with oil, vegan food, oil and caviar, vegan food and seafood, vegetarian food [including dairy] and seafood, and fast free days [on which abstinence is forbidden unless one is fasting prior to receiving Holy Communion]. There are also some days which fall under none of these where a person may do whatever their spiritual director approves of.)

The hour in the day before which one would not eat is generally determined by discussion with one’s priest and based upon factors such as one’s health, possible commitments (e.g. work lunches, school hours, unbelieving relative’s birthday, etc.), the weather (e.g. I’ve seen a priest at a very hot church say in summer that he’d rather not have people faint during the liturgy so if they need a little water they should take it) and other factors.

If you’re interested, I am aware that at least one Ordinariate parish (in the US I think?) keeps the Wednesday and Friday fasts as well as the fasts of the Rogation and Ember Days among others.

 

[TimothyH]

I am always a bit amused when discussions start up about fasting, and “bread and water” is brought up.

In Oregon, Bull Run water off the side of Mount Hood is among the more pure sources of water available within the US; and the biscuits from Red Lobster (with the packaged version available at Costco) are an absolute delight - as well as artisan breads from any bakery worth their salt.

Hardly what I would call a sacrifice.

A fast, according to the Church, is one main meal, and two others which together equal a second meal.

One, of course, can be more strict than the Church; and I will leave it to others to determine whether it is the individual who is wiser, or the Church with centuries more experience - and presumably wisdom. However, one venturing into serious spiritual exercises such as strict fasting would be well advised to obtain a spiritual director first; and one should not go “spiritual director shopping” until one finds a director willing to advise willy nilly such practices.

It might be pointed out that the Trappists lead a rather austere lifestyle, and it is only after some serious and long guidance that one of them is allowed to be a hermit - an even more austere lifestyle.

Penance and self-mortification are worthy, and most of us could do with a good dose of it. However, it is easy to go entirely overboard in such matters, to the point of far more harm than good to the individual.

This is a very good post and makes good points.

Of interest are the Trappists I know. Other communities might differ but these do live a very austere lifestyle, so much so that they really don’t do a bread and water fast on Wednesdays and Fridays throughout the year as is commonly thought.

A regular day includes a small “grab and go” meal in the morning, a big lunch and another grab-n-go at the end of the day. Grab-and-go might mean a piece of bread with peanut butter and a cup of coffee. The “white poisons” are not part of their diet - refined sugar, white bread, white rice, etc. No mayo, no butter, no meat unless on an infirm diet. Snacks between meals are forbidden and things like cake are served only as part of lunch on Sundays and major solemnities such as Easter or Christmas.

Every one of them is hard as nails and live well into their 90, some beyond 100.

What is described above - two small snacks and one main meal - is what we consider a fast day. It is not incorrect to say that they fast almost every day by modern standards.

-Tim-