Questions About Genesis...Please Help

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I’ve been reading about Gensis 1-3 and I have some serious questions about the theology and anthropology of the creation story.

Two questions:

FIRST, what does the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represent?

My first thought is that it is man’s desire to “rename” good and evil for himself apart from God or natural law. Of course, this would mean that man is in error in his judgment about good and evil. Thus, “eating” of the tree of knowledge ironically makes you ignorant.

But, this explanation seems to be at odds with other passages. First, if the tree leads to ignorance, why is the tree not called the tree of ignorance? Second, why does God claim that man needs to be expelled from the garden because, “Indeed! The man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil!” (Gen. 3:22)

This seems to suggest that Adam and Eve really did gain knowledge by “eating” of the tree. If so, why is that sinful? Why is there this primordial dichotomy between life and knowledge? Isn’t morality dependant upon the ability to judge good from evil? You can see my confusion as to why the tree of knowledge cuts one off from the tree of life.

In essence, if the tree of knowledge represents true knowledge, why does God force us to choose between it and the tree of life?

SECOND, Gen. 2:25 says, “Both the man and his wife were naked, but they felt no shame”.

Then, it Gen. 3:7, right after they eat of the tree of knowledge, it says, “Then the eyes of both were opened and they realized they were naked, so they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings”.

So, basically what happens here is that Adam and Eve go from a state of no shame to shame. In other words, they go from a happy state of seeing no evil in themselves to seeing evil in themselves.

Here’s my question. Did something physically happen to them right after the original sin so that their bodies were no longer in harmony with nature which made the coverings necessary? Or, did they view themselves incorrectly as evil whereas before the fall, they viewed themselves correctly–as good?

Please help if you can.
 
pseudoanselm said:
I’ve been reading about Gensis 1-3 and I have some serious questions about the theology and anthropology of the creation story.

Two questions:

FIRST, what does the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represent?

My first thought is that it is man’s desire to “rename” good and evil for himself apart from God or natural law. Of course, this would mean that man is in error in his judgment about good and evil. Thus, “eating” of the tree of knowledge ironically makes you ignorant.

But, this explanation seems to be at odds with other passages. First, if the tree leads to ignorance, why is the tree not called the tree of ignorance? Second, why does God claim that man needs to be expelled from the garden because, “Indeed! The man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil!” (Gen. 3:22)

This seems to suggest that Adam and Eve really did gain knowledge by “eating” of the tree. If so, why is that sinful? Why is there this primordial dichotomy between life and knowledge? Isn’t morality dependant upon the ability to judge good from evil? You can see my confusion as to why the tree of knowledge cuts one off from the tree of life.

In essence, if the tree of knowledge represents true knowledge, why does God force us to choose between it and the tree of life?

SECOND, Gen. 2:25 says, “Both the man and his wife were naked, but they felt no shame”.

Then, it Gen. 3:7, right after they eat of the tree of knowledge, it says, “Then the eyes of both were opened and they realized they were naked, so they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings”.

So, basically what happens here is that Adam and Eve go from a state of no shame to shame. In other words, they go from a happy state of seeing no evil in themselves to seeing evil in themselves.

Here’s my question. Did something physically happen to them right after the original sin so that their bodies were no longer in harmony with nature which made the coverings necessary? Or, did they view themselves incorrectly as evil whereas before the fall, they viewed themselves correctly–as good?

Please help if you can.
Click to expand...
God created the world and filled it with water, plants, animals and finally man. He created the realms so that man could have dominion over everything. They died a spiritual death when choosing to listen to the serpent. He gave them everything, including eternal life and all that he asked in return was for obedience. Because they did not obey, they died to a guarantee of eternal life. Their freewill allowed them two paths and they chose the one of sin, and they paid spiritually for the choice they made.

This story is written as a riddle and you must unravel it a bit to get the big picture. For example, why did they hide from God; of course He knew where they were. He was providing them with an opportunity to confess what they had done, though He already knew what they had done. It was important that they owned up to their sinful behavior.
 
<They died a spiritual death when choosing to listen to the serpent. He gave them everything, including eternal life and all that he asked in return was for obedience. Because they did not obey, they died to a guarantee of eternal life. Their freewill allowed them two paths and they chose the one of sin, and they paid spiritually for the choice they made.>

OK. But, what I’m getting at is that it seems strange that God would set “knowledge of good and evil” in opposition to life. For example, if I don’t know to stop at a red light, then I may die in an accident.

So, knowledge seems to support life while ignorance seems to stifle life. But, in Genesis, it seems like it’s the other way around.

If God gave Adam and Eve everything from the beginning as you say, then what lack of knowledge was it that tempted Eve? Didn’t Adam and Eve know the difference between good and evil before the fall?

Maybe the idea in Genesis is that the individual desire for knowledge, which is a good thing, shouldn’t be set above obedience to God who knows all?
 
I think Adam and Eve didnt loved G-d they just tried to obey him and when the serpent tented them they fell in sin because they didnt had a true love for G-d , The serpent told them that they will be like G-ds.
So they didnt loved G-d they jsut feared him , and the fact that they want to be like G-d is for me the worst sin “pride” as you said wanting to choose what is good and bad is like wanting to be like G-d. only G-d can say whats good n bad.
 
pseudoanselm said:
I’ve been reading about Gensis 1-3 and I have some serious questions about the theology and anthropology of the creation story.

Two questions:

FIRST, what does the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represent?

My first thought is that it is man’s desire to “rename” good and evil for himself apart from God or natural law. Of course, this would mean that man is in error in his judgment about good and evil. Thus, “eating” of the tree of knowledge ironically makes you ignorant.

But, this explanation seems to be at odds with other passages. First, if the tree leads to ignorance, why is the tree not called the tree of ignorance? Second, why does God claim that man needs to be expelled from the garden because, “Indeed! The man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil!” (Gen. 3:22)

This seems to suggest that Adam and Eve really did gain knowledge by “eating” of the tree. If so, why is that sinful? Why is there this primordial dichotomy between life and knowledge? Isn’t morality dependant upon the ability to judge good from evil? You can see my confusion as to why the tree of knowledge cuts one off from the tree of life.

In essence, if the tree of knowledge represents true knowledge, why does God force us to choose between it and the tree of life?

SECOND, Gen. 2:25 says, “Both the man and his wife were naked, but they felt no shame”.

Then, it Gen. 3:7, right after they eat of the tree of knowledge, it says, “Then the eyes of both were opened and they realized they were naked, so they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings”.

So, basically what happens here is that Adam and Eve go from a state of no shame to shame. In other words, they go from a happy state of seeing no evil in themselves to seeing evil in themselves.

Here’s my question. Did something physically happen to them right after the original sin so that their bodies were no longer in harmony with nature which made the coverings necessary? Or, did they view themselves incorrectly as evil whereas before the fall, they viewed themselves correctly–as good?

Please help if you can.
Click to expand...
Suggest you read this thread which I started.

On the literal and historical sense of Genesis 1 to 3

Also I recommend you study these books
"Dr Margaret N. Ralph;s Books
  1. “And God said what”:
    2 Discovering Old Testament Origins
    Available at Barnes & Noble
Dr Scott Hahn’s
Understanding the Scriptures (Didiche Series 2)
Available at EWTN Bookstores
 
Creation myths are religious explanations for what we see in the world today. The story of the advent of the knowledge of sin and shame simply means that as mankind developed over time he came to realize the difference between good and evil. If you want, the tree is a symbol of man’s ability to construct moral and ethical systems. When he did what he knew was wrong, he was ashamed. There is no shame where there is no wrong doing.
I hope this helps you.
Matthew
 
Look at it this way. Eternal life is the beatific vision - to see God. However, it is not to see God with our eyes, because God has no physical appearence to behold. Rather, it is to see God with our souls. One way that our souls ‘see’ things is through the intellect - our souls ‘see’ things by knowing them. Another way we can say our souls see things is by experiencing them - just as a man most intimately experiences a woman by ‘knowing her’ in the marital act (and vice versa, or course).

Having considered all of this, lets look at Jesus’ teaching in John 17:3: “And this is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.” Eternal life is the beatific vision - the beatific vision is literally the soul knowing God. In this life, we can know Him to varying degrees. Some, like me, know Him a little. Others, like St. John of the Cross, knew Him a lot. Heaven consists in knowing Him as much as the soul can - hence St. Paul teaches that “Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.” (1 Corinthians 13:12)

Adam and Eve were created in Grace - knowing God, but not knowing evil. The tree, however, was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Before this, all their souls knew was good - all their souls knew was God, and perhaps each other (in a holy way). In their disobedience, they came to know not only good, but evil as well.

Now it might seem odd that God knows evil, but I think that is because the way in which God knows things is different from how humans or angels do. God knows all things. He doesn’t create evil, but He knows it insofar as He understands evil perfectly, and He is aware that evil exists. Our human souls are limited in how we can know things, but God beholds all things at once. EDIT: - After all, God knows us, even though we are (sometimes) evil. He knows Satan, even though Satan is evil.
 
In the garden Adam and Eve were believed to be as children. God was responsible for all thus Adam & Eve had no direct exposure to evil. God allowed Adam and Eve to be tested a test which they failed. From that point on mankind was inflicted with more knowledge which allows direct access to evil. Man now can generate evil from within himself, as he has the knowledge to do so. When man generates evil we call it sin. When Adam & Eve were in the garden they were not responsible for any death even their own whether it happened or not. Now we have to use our ability to know good from evil and select good. Hope that helps
 
<The story of the advent of the knowledge of sin and shame simply means that as mankind developed over time he came to realize the difference between good and evil. If you want, the tree is a symbol of man’s ability to construct moral and ethical systems. >

That’s an interesting take. I think that the moral system of Adam and Eve was the the trust they had that God told them the truth about the tree of knowledge–namely that they would die if they “ate” of it.

One interesting explanation about the tree of knowledge of good and evil was by C.S. lewis. In the Narnia series he basically says that Adam and Eve’s sin was that they used knowledge for their own personal gain instead of for God’s purposes; ie. the kingdom of God.

I like that explanation because why would God want to withhold knowledge of good and evil from us?

Such a scenario makes the devil out to be the good guy who “brings light”. But, that makes no sense.

The devil deceived Adam and Eve, he didn’t contribute to their knowledge of anything. Or did he? I’m wrestling with this.
 
<In the garden Adam and Eve were believed to be as children. God was responsible for all thus Adam & Eve had no direct exposure to evil.>

Well, until they were tempted. So, the exposure was there.

But how does knowledge hurt you, especially in the moral life? If anything it helps.

<Man now can generate evil from within himself, as he has the knowledge to do so. When man generates evil we call it sin.>

But man can generate evil in ignorance as well. He may not be culpable. But, what solace is that when you just caused a great evil due to ignorance?

I think Adam and Eve LOST knowledge after the fall.

<When Adam & Eve were in the garden they were not responsible for any death even their own whether it happened or not.>

The reason for this as I see it is that A & E were in perfect harmony with God’s will, not because they were ignorant.

We have huge PR problem if we turn God into a concealer instead of a revealer.
 
This is a very interesting take. Thanks.

In a nutshell, you’re saying knowledge of God or of total good, is necessary for eternal life; ie. tree of life.

But, the choice to know good and evil, which comes thru disobedience of God, obsures the knowledge of God and, thus, cuts one off from the tree of life.

What I’m really trying to get at is why knowledge of good and evil is set in opposition to life in the Garden of Eden.

I like your explanation because, obviously, knowlege of God who is total good is conducive to life while knowledge of evil is not.

I think Adam and Eve knew what evil was before the fall. But, they knew as God knew it, namely, as something external to them and not caused by them.

After the fall, they knew evil as something that they actually caused by disobedience to God.
 
pseudoanselm said:
This is a very interesting take. Thanks.

In a nutshell, you’re saying knowledge of God or of total good, is necessary for eternal life; ie. tree of life.

But, the choice to know good and evil, which comes thru disobedience of God, obsures the knowledge of God and, thus, cuts one off from the tree of life.

What I’m really trying to get at is why knowledge of good and evil is set in opposition to life in the Garden of Eden.

I like your explanation because, obviously, knowlege of God who is total good is conducive to life while knowledge of evil is not.

I think Adam and Eve knew what evil was before the fall. But, they knew as God knew it, namely, as something external to them and not caused by them.

After the fall, they knew evil as something that they actually caused by disobedience to God.
Click to expand...
How did Adam & Eve know sin before the fall? Would that not place both evil and sin in the Garden? Would that not have made the Garden similar to our world today? Is it possible the Garden did not have sin nor evil but had a method to introduce sin and evil?
 
pseudoanselm said:
This is a very interesting take. Thanks.

In a nutshell, you’re saying knowledge of God or of total good, is necessary for eternal life; ie. tree of life.

But, the choice to know good and evil, which comes thru disobedience of God, obsures the knowledge of God and, thus, cuts one off from the tree of life.

What I’m really trying to get at is why knowledge of good and evil is set in opposition to life in the Garden of Eden.

I like your explanation because, obviously, knowlege of God who is total good is conducive to life while knowledge of evil is not.

I think Adam and Eve knew what evil was before the fall. But, they knew as God knew it, namely, as something external to them and not caused by them.

After the fall, they knew evil as something that they actually caused by disobedience to God.
Click to expand...
What I was saying is that it’s not so much that the tree was some mystical tree that caused people to know things by eating of it, but that it’s more like by disobeying God, they came to have the experience of evil. In other words, if we interpret the story in a sortof literal way like this, the tree may just as well have been an ordinary tree with nothing special about it. God instructed them not to eat of it, and so when they ate it, they were commiting evil and thus knowing evil experientially. God called it the tree of the knowledge of good and evil not because of any special property it had, but because eating of it led them to know evil in that eating of it was disobeying God.

In other words, it’s possible that it had nothing to do with aquiring any sort of intellectual knowledge or wisdom at all.

Of course, there are plenty of other explanations, and I wouldn’t be surprised if several of them were true; the Bible is full of depth.

If knowledge was opposed to having life in the garden, it doesn’t have to be opposed in and of itself, either. There are lots of good things in the world that we can’t get because God has said no. Ultimately, that’s all that mattered - God said ‘no.’ It was a test, after all. For all we know, if the tree did give some sort of knowledge, it was knowledge God was going to give to them after they had been tempted and shown their faithfulness to God. I think we all realize that in our lives there are lots of instances where we can get something good by disobeying God, but we must wait anyways and receive that good thing at the time and in the way God intends.
 
This seems to suggest that Adam and Eve really did gain knowledge by “eating” of the tree. If so, why is that sinful? Why is there this primordial dichotomy between life and knowledge? Isn’t morality dependant upon the ability to judge good from evil? You can see my confusion as to why the tree of knowledge cuts one off from the tree of life.
Click to expand...
It wasn’t that the tree of knowledge cuts one off from the tree of life, it was that partaking of the fruit of this tree was forbidden by God.

And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die. (Genesis 2:16-17)

Because of their disobedience God banished them from the garden.
In essence, if the tree of knowledge represents true knowledge, why does God force us to choose between it and the tree of life?
Click to expand...
He didn’t force them to choose he just gave us free will. Adam and Eve exercised their free will and chose to disobey God.

Then we read:

And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.
 
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