Questions about the Decree Against Communism

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sibo1952

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I hope this is the right category, I’m new.
  1. Does the decree against communism apply to non-Marxist socialism?
  2. Are you allowed to side with them on any issue? (i.e supporting the Soviets against Nazi Germany or Cuba’s good social services)
  3. If the answer is “no” for 1 and 2 am I still excommunicated even though I didn’t know?
I’m currently a non-Marxist socialist who follows all Catholic doctrine.
 
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This is somewhat of a tricky question, as definitions of communism differ from socialism, and definitions of socialism differ across time and place. What is true of socialism in, say, Australia 2019 is very different from France in 1891 when the encyclical Rerum Novarum (which disavowed socialism) was released.

Historically, both communism and socialism focussed on the abolition of private property and it in respect to this issue that the Church was most concerned. Both communism and socialism were to some extent or another anti-clerical, and communism repudiated religion entirely.

On the other hand, there has always been a variety of “soft” socialism known as democratic socialism, which supports the rights of private property, is cautious against the expanding the presence of government and has amicable relationships with religious communities.

With that in mind, the answers to all three of your questions are: “it depends”. It depends specifically on the beliefs of the specific political group to which you belong.
 
Basically my economics are similar to distributists in that I support small businesses, which means I support private property to an extent. Where we differ is that I support nationalization of big industries. I support Catholic influence in society as well, but I’m no democratic socialist. Would that be banned under the decree against communism?
 
sibo1952 said:
Would that be banned under the decree against communism?
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No, an act of nationalization in itself would not fall under the Church’s decree against communism. Many large enterprises were and still are operated by the state for a multitude of reasons: healthcare, roads, railways, etc. The decision to nationalize (or denationalize) is a legitimate political and economic question that has to be determined on a case-by-case basis by each national community.

That being said, I’m not sure that the Church would support a law whereby the state must acquire all large businesses. A problematic feature of large-scale state appropriation of private firms is that such acts have historically (but not always) accompanied violence, xenophobia and religious persecution. It is in this respect that the Church is cautious.
 
@sibo1952

Welcome to CAF, sibo1952! Lol! I hate the expression, “Everything is (Things are) relative,” but, sometimes that’s a pretty apt summation.

Don’t forget that the lesser sins are venial, and the sins of grave matter are the mortal sins, but there are three conditions: the sin actually must be of grave or mortal matter, you must be aware that it’s a mortal sin, and you must choose to do it.

I was sidetracked for awhile, came back, and now see that @Bithynian uses “It depends,” to describe your situation—in a similar category to “Everything is (Things are) relative.” As far as your specific question regarding excommunication, do you see now that you do not meet the criteria above? So excommunication was/is not a possibility, the way I understand our faith.

Sometimes citizens are given a choice of Party A’s brand of socialism, or Party B’s brand of socialism. (Other choices might be equally despicable.) Put very simply, the Church promotes the freedom of each individual, not the quashing and squashing of one’s mind, body, spirit, and property. That’s when the “It depends” and “Everything is (Things are) relative” comes into play.

You’re not helping yourself or your country if you fail to vote when you have the opportunity. You must vote your conscience: weigh the alternatives and vote the way you think is best for the people in your country, for both the immediate future and the distant future. Many times, we are forced to choose the lesser of two evils. So, “it depends,” because sometimes “things really are relative.” 😀

However, any time that you would choose to vote for a government that would strip freedom from all but a few individuals, and you knew that you would be one of those government ruling elite, at the expense of your fellow man, you would be inherently wrong.

Your question is an interesting one, and apropos in this particular reality moment of world history. Most of us mean well, but precise meanings are lost when we type and you don’t hear our inflection when we voice our opinions. Misunderstandings abound, and few of us have studied the Church like our priests have, so please don’t rely upon our answers, but do talk to your priest and unload this burden. Ahem. Father knows best! 😀
 
sibo1952 said:
Where we differ is that I support nationalization of big industries.
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If you mean you support nationalization of big industries on principle, then no, that doesn’t work with Church teaching.
 
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Thank you.

I don’t quite understand your answer though, are you saying socialism is allowed or only if there are no other options?
 
I’m fascinated to hear more about Cuba’s “good” social services.
 
They have some of the best doctors and medical innovation in the hemisphere for example, and manage to work with what they have/are able to get.
 
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sibo1952 said:
Thank you.

I don’t quite understand your answer though, are you saying socialism is allowed or only if there are no other options?
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It’s my understanding that if your choice is Socialism Brand A, or Socialism Brand B, with no other alternative, you must side with the form that does the least in terms of restricting man’s basic rights. (The men who wrote the initial US governing papers referred to them as inalienable rights.)

Please do speak with a priest as soon as you can, as he will have a deeper understanding of Church teaching than we who post here. 😀
 
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I don’t want to say the wrong thing to a priest.

What if your choice is socialism brand or capitalism brand and the capitalist brand would end up being worse for the nation
 
sibo1952 said:
I don’t want to say the wrong thing to a priest.

What if your choice is socialism brand or capitalism brand and the capitalist brand would end up being worse for the nation
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Sibo, you can’t say anything that will be wrong to a priest. 😀 You must feel confident that he will tell you the truth as he sees it, in light of Church teachings and his familiarity with government in your country. Even if a priest tells you that yes, something is, indeed, sinful, and might raise his voice like people do in the course of ordinary conversation, he’ll be decrying the sin, not you, the sinner.

In just 14 more years, the Church will have been issuing guidelines to help our journeys to eternity for two thousand years. Think how astonishing that is! She always does so with the goal of one day helping our rejoined bodies and souls enter the bliss of eternal Heaven. The path to Heaven which the Church seeks for us is the surest path, but sometimes the societies in which we live change to the point that some older guidelines may not be applicable within a particular country. A priest who understands both our Catholic teachings and the political/governmental constraints that exist in your country is really the only one who can give you a definitive answer. 😀

Please, sibo, seek a priest as soon as you can. This burden is too heavy for you to continue to carry alone. Just talk to him as you have here with us; even show him this thread. Your priest isn’t perfect, but he’s a good man who lives for Christ; you can trust his words, when all others may be suspect. I’m sure that others who read here will join me in praying that you talk with him soon. 😇
 
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😀 I’m truly pleased that you’ve made this choice! Come back to see us, though! Explore the CAF fora and the non-forum features of this site. In addition to lively debates that are frequently either entertaining or maddening, we have games, prayers for the intentions of those who post, and a perpetual rosary. To paraphrase a famous US credit card commercial: “Visit often—you’ll be glad you did!” 😀
 
Thats one of the sources I was trying to link, check health statistics.
 
I don’t like when people call themselves socialist Catholic, traditional Catholic. It’s just more division which we don’t need.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
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