Questions about unorthodox parish

[2nmga]

I had the need to visit my territorial parish for Mass this Sunday, and had a few questions about their “practices”. It is a Catholic Community, pastored by Franciscans. There are too many things to list that are questionable, but what I’d like help with is the matter of the wine–should it be red or white? They always use white–didn’t know if this was a big deal. Also, I have written to the diocese about the congregation joining in with the priest when he says “through Him, with Him , in Him…” In the letter to the diocese, I did question the total lack of reverence during the Mass…they morph into one for the Our Father–everyone has to spread out and hold hands; my children and I just bow our heads and fold our hands. I’ve had the occasion to ask the pastor after Mass why certain things were omitted during the Mass and he didn’t address my concerns, but did feel the need to tell me that receiving Holy Communion in the hand was the way of the old church–needless to say, I didn’t ask him about Communion–guess he just thought I was one of those “crazy take it on the tongue” people.
I hold out hope for this parish–because it is less than 5 minutes from my house–would love for it to be a place that I could have my children learn and grow in their faith. Unfortunately, it is a very large parish with very big coffers!

 

[decn2b]

I have been to a church I believe in the petosky (or is it gaylord) diocese and the doxicology (through him with him etc.) was also chanted by the congregation.

I am not sure but if someone would please chime in…does this invalidate the MASS>

If this is true then I am going to have to admit that I will not be able to go to mass when I am on vacation at this place. It is 30 miles out into lake Michigan (beaver island) and I would have no way to attend a valid mass.

IF it is indeed a valid mass then that is another issue.

 

[twiztedseraph]

decn2b:

I have been to a church I believe in the petosky (or is it gaylord) diocese and the doxicology (through him with him etc.) was also chanted by the congregation.

I am not sure but if someone would please chime in…does this invalidate the MASS>

If this is true then I am going to have to admit that I will not be able to go to mass when I am on vacation at this place. It is 30 miles out into lake Michigan (beaver island) and I would have no way to attend a valid mass.

IF it is indeed a valid mass then that is another issue.

No such thing as a valid or invalid mass, there is a valid or invalid consecration. And basically as long as he has the consecration according to the Church down, and intends to do what the Church does, thats Jesus up there. So no matter how irreverent anyone else is there’s our reason to go. It may however be illicit, but still fulfills the obligation. A mass would have to be totally alien to the Novus Ordo or the 1962 Tridentine Missal to not fulfill the obligation.

I suggest talking to the pastor and then perhaps the Bishop, but always with charity.

Pax,
Seraph

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

decn2b:

I have been to a church I believe in the petosky (or is it gaylord) diocese and the doxicology (through him with him etc.) was also chanted by the congregation.

I am not sure but if someone would please chime in…does this invalidate the MASS>

NO! A Mass can however be invalid as any Sacrament can be invalid if not properly administered. However the liturgical abuses listed do not invalidate the Sacrament or the Mass and issues like the color of the wine are not even liturgical abuses.

 

[Brendan]

The wine used may be of any grape, including white grapes, but must be only of grape, no additives or other fruits.

So the use of white wine is perfectly acceptable.

And while technically true that the term valid or invalid apply only to a Sacrament, if the Consecration is invalid, as there is no sacrifice of the Mass and the obligation to attend Mass is not met.

The issues outlined are abuses, but do not seem to render the consecration invalid, so it what you describe is a valid, but illicit Mass.