Questions on modesty

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The man by nature is very impulsive creature , therefore the modesty in dress is very important for the woman , who call herself Christian.
I grew up among the Evangelical community
And I tell you the examples .
One Pastor was very dedicated Christian , he did a lot for the Church and the Church members.
He was a good family man , good husband , good father and good example for all Church.
In elder age , he suddenly left his wife and went to live to another young woman.

Another accident : The preacher in one of the Churches , was a good family man , he left wife with 5 kids , and went to another woman.
Not long time ago I heard about the young Evangelical family , he was a singer in the Christian band , he just left the wife with 3 kids.

I was communicated with the people , who were very good friends with those apostate ones , and I tell you - there is a one reason , why those man committed adulteries , it was because of the another woman’s immodest dress.
Immodest dress was the starting point of that journey of falling to sin ( sins), and some times, for many man - there is no way back.
Broken families , children without father , spiritual damnation ,… that’s the result of the woman’s immodesty in dress.
What seems strange , some times even in the Church you can see the women , who probably think that in the Church they can look like in the Night Club…. Total absence of understanding that she must look modest outwardly before to think about inward spiritual modesty.
 
I do hope I am not turning anyone off with the sheer volume of my posting. However, I would still like to address some points, so please bear with me. I’ll try to be concise.
tvdxer said:
I wonder if some here aren’t being a little too strict about what constitutes “modest”. Or perhaps modesty is less practiced in hotter regions of the world.

Most girls at my college, for example, dress quite modestly but not frumpy. Maybe it’s the cold in this region. Granted, I never look below the waist really (I’ve never been that kind of guy…), but most of what I see is very much decent.
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There is a difference between choice made to deal with the weather and choices made to attain distorted pleasure. I don’t want to say “choices made to attract attention” because attracting attention is not of itself an evil thing. What is wrong is when sexual pleasure is sought and given outside of marriage and this may happen by dressing in a certain way and looking at it. Merely trying to be attractive, even if some people get the wrong ideas, is not yet there. Dealing with the weather cannot be compared to looking for the wrong kind of attention or any attempt at seduction.

This said, dealing with the weather is no license to dispense with modesty, e.g. if one legitimately wears little clothing, it doesn’t follow that one is entitled to specific colours, cuts, shapes or adornments that draw sexual attention to specific features of one body and reduce the person to a sexual object. Also, while limiting the coverage of clothing is an instinct response, it isn’t always the best one. For example, you need to wear a hat in the sun, not dispense with it. Similarly, too much skin exposure to the sun may cause even skin cancer. Sometimes, also, certain fabrics are better at isolating the heat and keeping us cool than exposing the body to the sun. In tropical heat, I, a guy from a rather boreal climate, would prefer to wear a cotton shirt than to go shirtless any time, and I’d definitely prefer normal shorts to boxers (might even want full length trousers in some cases). Similarly, I believe in many situations a cotton or linen dress will beat what many young women prefer to wear in similar weather conditions.

In practice, the separation of weather concerns and other concerns mean that weather has nothing to do with e.g. the colour or pattern or adornments of one’s clothes, and also while sleeveless may be perfectly fine, the weather doesn’t say it needs to be tight and where shorts may be perfectly fine, the weather doesn’t say they need to be tight, either. In fact, I’d imagine loose shorts to be better for hot weather than tight ones. This of course perfectly applies to men, well, with some modifications as necessary.
Athanasiy said:
The man by nature is very impulsive creature ,
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More than a woman? Why? How? But this is just a side point. I agree that modesty starts inward. May I stress again that modesty in dress is not just about not leading others to sin, but it may well be connected with avoiding own sins, i.e. avoiding the seeking of distorted pleasure (from being lusted for), pride (of being “hot”), avoiding a very own act of seduction? My point is that it’s not all about men when we talk about the modesty of women and when we talk about the modesty of men, it’s not all about women, either. I wouldn’t like to see women seen as victims of male sexuality.
 
I think that man is less exposed to be gazed at.
But yes , in order to prevent our natural feelings for the opposite sex from overpowering our logic and dictating our behavior , it is necessary that in public both men and women should look modest.

Today modesty is more associated with sexual repression.
The modern age standard equates sexuality with youth and beauty.
Equates sexuality with Playboy’s definition of sexuality .
So we are forced to believe that , for example the wife with which husband lives 20 years and the wife who was faithful to him all years of life is not sexy any more , just because she is not a Playboy standard , she is not good looking and young.
In the modern age the marriage is called ‘’ legalized rape ‘’ or ‘’ sexual repression ‘’
That’s our modern age and that’s the reason , why the return to modesty is urgent !!
People are loosing understanding of shame . People are loosing understanding of modesty.

Hamlet , when considering the motives for his mother’s hurried marriage , to his father’s murder exclaims , ‘’ O shame ! where is thy blush ? ‘’
Not long time ago , I watched the musical ‘ Romeo and Juliet ‘ by the French theater genius , may be I did not notice if the performance follows the Shakespeare’s thought in some episodes , but the Shakespeare’s Juliet was modest for loving Romeo !
She assures her nurse that she has not ‘’ stepped o’ev the bounds of modesty ‘’ .

Talking about outward appearance, I think the more woman is modestly dressed the more she has ‘pride’ for her self.
I mean not the pride which is one of the deadly sins but the ‘pride’ from inner sense of dignity – modest pride .
Its also about common sense , its about of ‘’what is truly beautiful in women ‘’. ( Whatever what we say - Veiled women are much more attractive than unveiled women )

If we explore the understanding of modesty in different religion .
For example , there are the laws of family purity in Judaism , there is the ‘’sacrament of love ‘’ in Christianity . The mystery of woman Paul says is symbolized by the veil.
Also in the Muslim religion , the Koran details parts of the body must be covered .

I think that for example the culture where I live , this culture as I see unfortunately treats its women as a kind of joke .
You can see it by the musical channels , the musical channels are not different from the erotic channels. You can see it how man treats the woman in a daily life .
Its in majority the society of man who ‘’do not know’’ how to relate to woman as men.
And I think in the Western world it is already getting much similar today .
In many Western world countries the secondary schools have the sex education . Right ?
But may we see according to the statistics of rape , teen pregnancies , sexual violence that the sex education help and works to educate the young generation ?
Those people who make millions of dollars by promoting pornography , they have the body guards but unfortunately the simple women who walk home after the work , they do not have their own body guards .
Before ( at the age of so called ‘’ sexual repression ‘’ )the best sex education was the education in the ways of modesty .

Was the statistic of sexual violence then ,
the same as it is today ?

The answer is – there is a need to return to modesty !!
 
missp said:
One of the best explanations of modest dress I have ever heard came from a priest talking to a group of high school girls. He told them that dressing modestly means dressing in a way that makes your boyfriend look you in the eye.

Bev
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On the other hand, sometimes I have to look a girl in the eyes because I’m afraid to look anywhere else!

This discussion reminded me of something that Abby Nye said in her book Fish Out of Water. She’s talking about college girls here:

“Truthfully, it’s not hard to figure out why even good girls want to look bad.
Good girls want to look bad because girls who dress modestly are overlooked. Most guys don’t pay attention to modestly clothed girls, at least not when there is another girl ten feet away wearing low-cut pants and a low-cut shirt and has cleavage on display. Here’s a hard truth females have to learn to live with if you go to college and maintain any standard of modesty and purity: When you dress modestly you become nearly invisible.”
 
JimG said:
On the other hand, sometimes I have to look a girl in the eyes because I’m afraid to look anywhere else!

This discussion reminded me of something that Abby Nye said in her book Fish Out of Water. She’s talking about college girls here:

“Truthfully, it’s not hard to figure out why even good girls want to look bad.

Good girls want to look bad because girls who dress modestly are overlooked. Most guys don’t pay attention to modestly clothed girls, at least not when there is another girl ten feet away wearing low-cut pants and a low-cut shirt and has cleavage on display. Here’s a hard truth females have to learn to live with if you go to college and maintain any standard of modesty and purity: When you dress modestly you become nearly invisible.”
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Worry not, I do the “stalking”.
 
JimG said:
“Truthfully, it’s not hard to figure out why even good girls want to look bad.
Good girls want to look bad because girls who dress modestly are overlooked. Most guys don’t pay attention to modestly clothed girls, at least not when there is another girl ten feet away wearing low-cut pants and a low-cut shirt and has cleavage on display. Here’s a hard truth females have to learn to live with if you go to college and maintain any standard of modesty and purity: When you dress modestly you become nearly invisible.”
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I know that “invisible” feeling all too well…

But the guys that are paying attention to the low-cut shirts aren’t the guys I want paying attention to me anyway!! It’s much better to have no attention, than to have the WRONG attention!! 😃
 
I am so glad to see this being discussed. I reread Wendy Shalit’s book about modesty. Has anyone read it? Her website is great.
 
For tween-agers, there is the series books by Theresa Tomeo “All Things Girl”. My daughters love these books.
 
The bottom line to me is that Catholics and Christians need to consciously live in such a way as to combat the pornification of the culture. The society is sex-saturated and letting it dictate our standards of morality is destruction to ourselves, our culture, and to the witness of Christ.
 
Let your modesty be known to all men.
Philippians 4:5

‘Where Christ is, there modesty is found.’
St. Gregory the Great

‘How delightful it is to do good to others by your appearance.’
St. Ambrose

For me a woman who is dressed modestly has her own special halo of holiness. The others are lost, and I do not see them as fit companions but rather as patients in need of a doctor.

Here are two good sermons, among others on modesty:

Modesty: the Virtue That Guards Purity

Modesty of the Eyes

Here are two good modest clothing resources:

JMJ Modest Dress
the King’s Daughters

A woman who wishes to find a man to marry rather than be a virgin (which is the superior state) should find a man through modesty and prayer. Any other sort of man she finds will likely often be a curse rather than a blessing.
 
Shin said:
Let your modesty be known to all men.
Philippians 4:5

‘Where Christ is, there modesty is found.’
St. Gregory the Great

‘How delightful it is to do good to others by your appearance.’
St. Ambrose

For me a woman who is dressed modestly has her own special halo of holiness. The others are lost, and I do not see them as fit companions but rather as patients in need of a doctor.

Here are two good sermons, among others on modesty:

Modesty: the Virtue That Guards Purity

Modesty of the Eyes

Here are two good modest clothing resources:

JMJ Modest Dress
the King’s Daughters

A woman who wishes to find a man to marry rather than be a virgin (which is the superior state) should find a man through modesty and prayer. Any other sort of man she finds will likely often be a curse rather than a blessing.
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👍
 
mod⋅es⋅ty 
–noun, plural -ties.
  1. the quality of being modest; freedom from vanity, boastfulness, etc.
  2. regard for decency of behavior, speech, dress, etc.
  3. simplicity; moderation.

Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.​

Philippians 4

5 Let all men know your forbearance. The Lord is at hand.
6 Have no anxiety about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
7 And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, will keep your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
8 Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things

That guy in the sound clip kept repeating and repeating “let you modesty be know to all men” The Revised Standard Version above Catholic version reads “Let all men know your forbearance.” The New American Bible reads “Your kindness should be known to all.” What bible is this guy reading?

By the way, is that Ralph Martin?
 
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