Questions on sacred texts

[MooCowSteph]

I apologize if this has been covered before, but I was thinking about the validity of sacred tests other than the Bible. Are any of then at least partially inspired? What about the Qur’an, or the Torah since it includes text in addition to the first 5 books of the Bible? Were other sacred texts produced to deceive or did their authors think they were being inspired by God?? Do they have any validity?

 

[atsheeran]

The Torah is inspired sacred text. If you are just referring to the written Torah (not the “oral Toral” which was collected in other Jewish texts) then we are not talking about any texts that are not included in the Christian Bible.

So, the Torah does not include any texts in addition to the first five books of the bible. The Tanakh is bigger than the Torah (that’s the whole Hebrew Bible, → the Torah, the prophets, and the writings, and it does not include anything not in the Christian Old Testament).

The Talmud is the collection of the “oral Torah” and Catholics do not recognize it as inspired.

 

[Verbum]

Hi Moo,

Persuading oneself that we are inspired by God is one of the easiest thing in the world.

An interesting thing to note is that no author of any book in the Bible claims to have been inspired by God. Jewish auhtorities accepted the Old Testament as inspired and this was confirmed by Christ himself. The Church then accepted the current canon for the Old and New Testaments. It is important to note that the Bible does not take its authority from the Church; it takes its authority from the fact that it is the word of God. The Church “receives” the Bible from God.

Other “sacred writings” throughout the world have possibly been written by God-fearing people who genuinely believed that they were in contact with some higher power. And one cannot exclude that some of them who lead good lives and were sincere may have benefitted from the fact that they genuinely sought the truth. But these writings are not proposed by God for the guidance of all men toward salvation. Only the Catholic Church has authority to discern the way and the means of salvation.

Verbum

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

MooCowSteph:

I apologize if this has been covered before, but I was thinking about the validity of sacred tests other than the Bible. Are any of then at least partially inspired? What about the Qur’an, or the Torah since it includes text in addition to the first 5 books of the Bible? Were other sacred texts produced to deceive or did their authors think they were being inspired by God?? Do they have any validity?

Interesting one to ask - I’ve seen it suggested that the Koran might be inspired: but this was about six years ago. I’ll try to find the source for this.​

AFAIK, the CC has never actually said that there are no inspired texts other than the Bible. The nature of inspiration is itself a huge number of questions, a whole constellation of them. ##

 

[atsheeran]

## Interesting one to ask - I’ve seen it suggested that the Koran might be inspired: but this was about six years ago. I’ll try to find the source for this.

AFAIK, the CC has never actually said that there are no inspired texts other than the Bible. The nature of inspiration is itself a huge number of questions, a whole constellation of them. ##

We can confidently rule out the Koran as an inspired text since it expressly denies things that we know to be true such as the Trinity and the divinity of Christ.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

atsheeran:

We can confidently rule out the Koran as an inspired text since it expressly denies things that we know to be true such as the Trinity and the divinity of Christ.

Well, perhaps - it is not clear that Muhammad intended to be understood as ruling out either of those.​

And even if that was intended, it is not clear that a book which leaves much to be desired, cannot mediate the Word of God in a manner which will promote the salvation of the reader. It is the God Who saves Whose action matters - not the means by which He acts.

I don’t see why someone cannot receive saving faith by reading the definitions of the Council of Trent, say. Even though these are not inspired either. Scripture is:

a) very holy, good and useful, inspired and sacred and canonical; and its reading is most emphatically to be encouraged.

However:

b) the reading of Scripture is not absolutely necessary for salvation.

Catholic teaching holds both of these, without subordinating either to the other. It neither despises the Bible, nor does it think that it can replace Christ.

Because it is Christ Who holds the Primacy, not the Bible - it witnesses to, is for the sake of, is meant to manifest and lead to, Him; not the other way about. And because He - not it - is Lord and Saviour, He can redeem whom He likes, where He likes, how He likes. Even - should He so wish - through very imperfect means such as the Koran. But since He seems, habitually, to work through imperfect men to do this, to think that he can work savingly through an imperfect book is no great stretch.

God requires no created means of grace or salvation: not His Church, Bible, sacraments, saints, graces, or any other thing: they require God. Without God, they could neither exist nor be of any value or of any effect; what they are, they are because He has created them thus. It is man who needs God, not God Who needs man. God has no need at all of anything created.

He doesn’t require perfect holiness, wisdom, & graciousness in priests, or in the rest of us - so why should the imperfections of the Koran stop Him working to save ? Nor does any of this imply the least unfaithfulness to the people whom He has chosen as His own.

“God’s grace is not bound to the sacraments” - He does not work through them alone. That too is Catholic teaching. ##