Questions

[WILKM]

I am presently having a discussion with a Sola Scriptura believer on the Holy Eucharist and really need your help on how to answer the following two questions:

First question:
**You seem to equate sacrilege with sin.
From Romans 14:23 – for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
If someone has faith that the Eucharist is not Christ,
then are they still committing a sin if they consume it?
I mean if I just wanted to consume the food and drink while fellowshipping with a body of believers in remembrance of Christ’s sacrifice upon the tree and in hopes that I don’t offend anyone, having faith that it is not sin to consume the food and drink, would that still be considered sin by the members of the RCC?

**Second question:
**Would having been baptized by the Holy Ghost suffice instead of being baptized with water? **
Many thanks for your help.

 

[Seeks_God]

I think it is a sin, which is why the Church refuses to allow people who aren’t members of the faith to receive communion. The Church understands that Eucharist IS the Holy Body and Holy Blood of Christ.

The Church allows for spiritual Baptisms, but I’m not sure what the details are behind it. The Rite, however, is supposed to include water…

 

[Verbum]

Hi Wilkm,

Is your first question asking whether a Catholic can receive the “Eucharist” at a Protestant service?

If that is your question, then the answer is no. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

**1400 **Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, “have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders.” It is for this reason that, for the Catholic Church, Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible. However these ecclesial communities, “when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory.”

As for your second question, the Catholic Church holds that the only true baptism is baptism with water.

From the Council of Trent

Decree concerning the sacraments

Canons on baptism

**Canon 1. **If anyone says that the baptism of John had the same effect as the baptism of Christ,[8] let him be anathema.

Canon 2.If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism[9] and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost,[10] let him be anathema.

**Canon 3. **If anyone says that in the Roman Church, which is the mother and mistress of all churches, there is not the true doctrine concerning the sacrament of baptism,[11] let him be anathema.

**Canon 4. **If anyone says that the baptism which is given by heretics in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, with the intention of doing what the Church does, is not true baptism,[12] let him be anathema.

**Canon 5. **If anyone says that baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation,[13] let him be anathema.

Does this anwer your questions?

Verbum

 

[gardenswithkids]

Using Scripture alone these questions can be addressed.
First question, 1st Corinthians 11:23-34 describes the Lord’s supper, and includes this:
Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eats the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. 1 Corinthians 11: 27-29

Second question, Jesus address the need for baptism by both water and Spirit in John’s Gospel.
Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kigndom of God without being born of water and Spirit. John 3:5

That being said, many who claim to believe “Sola Scriptura” actaully believe in scripture based on how it’s been explained to them by their pastors, Bible study leaders, parents, friends and faith traditions. Your friend may look at these Bible verses, read them and explain that they don’t really mean what they say. But you can still present solid Biblical proof texts for why the Catholic Church teaches what it does on these questions.

 

[ames61]

WILKM:

If someone has faith that the Eucharist is not Christ,
then are they still committing a sin if they consume it? . . .would that still be considered sin by the members of the RCC?

Second question:
**Would having been baptized by the Holy Ghost suffice instead of being baptized with water? **

To the first question, I would say, yes it is still a sin, but without the knowledge, their culpability is reduced. The friends at the mass who allowed it, or didn’t inform him might be more culpable than he.

To the second question, my understanding is that baptism must be in the proper form (In the name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit) and with the proper substance, ie water, to be valid, so no, baptism of the Holy Ghost would seem not to suffice. Not even really sure what it is.

 

[LoneRanger]

i suggest you schedule a meeting with your local priest… good luck…

 

[WILKM]

Hi Everyone

Thanks for your comments. This chap I am “chatting” with on another forum is very argumentative and does tend to twist things and he’s all over the place.

Think I need to get a degree in theology to answer all his questions!!! LOL

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