Quick question about Fatima please

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itullian

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this came up on another thread.

Lucia said Mary told her that her 2 siblings would die very soon, right?
and that was true, they did.

did Lucia make this prediction known before or after the
children died?

thank you
 
It was her two cousins who were the visionaries with her. Their deaths were predicted before hand.

From Wiki:
In 1936 and again in 1941, Sister Lúcia claimed that the Virgin Mary had predicted the deaths of two of the children during the second apparition on June 13, 1917. Besides Lúcia’s account, the testimony of Olímpia Marto (mother of the two younger children) and several others state that her children did not keep this information secret and ecstatically predicted their own deaths many times to her and to curious pilgrims.[23] In fact, it was the first thing Jacinta told her mother when she spoke to her after the initial apparition.[24] According to the 1941 account, on 13 June, Lúcia asked the Virgin if the three children would go to heaven when they died. She said that she heard Mary reply, “Yes, I shall take Francisco and Jacinta soon, but you will remain a little longer, since Jesus wishes you to make me known and loved on earth. He wishes also for you to establish devotion in the world to my Immaculate Heart.”[25]

If you are not asking about the other visionaries. I’m sorry I didn’t look that up.
 
maltmom said:
It was her two cousins who were the visionaries with her. Their deaths were predicted before hand.

From Wiki:
In 1936 and again in 1941, Sister Lúcia claimed that the Virgin Mary had predicted the deaths of two of the children during the second apparition on June 13, 1917. Besides Lúcia’s account, the testimony of Olímpia Marto (mother of the two younger children) and several others state that her children did not keep this information secret and ecstatically predicted their own deaths many times to her and to curious pilgrims.[23] In fact, it was the first thing Jacinta told her mother when she spoke to her after the initial apparition.[24] According to the 1941 account, on 13 June, Lúcia asked the Virgin if the three children would go to heaven when they died. She said that she heard Mary reply, “Yes, I shall take Francisco and Jacinta soon, but you will remain a little longer, since Jesus wishes you to make me known and loved on earth. He wishes also for you to establish devotion in the world to my Immaculate Heart.”[25]

If you are not asking about the other visionaries. I’m sorry I didn’t look that up.
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so Lucia’s revelation of the prediction was AFTER the death of her cousins NOT before, correct?
 
I don’t know, maybe she didn’t mention it, but the children affected by the prediction did. Maybe she didn’t tell of the prediction until later b/c the other children “ecstatically” told of it.
 
maltmom said:
I don’t know, maybe she didn’t mention it, but the children affected by the prediction did. Maybe she didn’t tell of the prediction until later b/c the other children “ecstatically” told of it.
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is it an official record that the children told of it or just a story?
 
The article references a book by Lucia and another book by De Marchi. I haven’t read either. Where De Marchi got his quotes, I don’t know.
 
thanks,

im just trying to see if its a credible argument for the Miracle or not.

someone on another thread said Lucia’s prediction was AFTER the deaths, so that wouldn’t carry any weight.
 
Here’s a lick to Lucia’s book you can read it free. I would think there may be newspaper records from when the children died referencing that they were told they would die soon. This prediction may have been well known in the area. The focus has been on the three messages.

shrineofsaintjude.net/home1344.html
 
maltmom said:
Here’s a lick to Lucia’s book you can read it free. I would think there may be newspaper records from when the children died referencing that they were told they would die soon. This prediction may have been well known in the area. The focus has been on the three messages.

shrineofsaintjude.net/home1344.html
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right, the 3 messages, but

if the predictions of the deaths was made BEFORE they died that would be very strong evidence.
even for those that doubt the sun miracle.
 
I agree.

One thing that strikes me is that along with St Bernadette, Lucia went into religious life and didn’t seek fame. The church has approved Fatima. Since it is a private revelation we are not required to believe it although it is strongly suggested that we do.

As a recent convert I’m still trying to understand the apparitions myself.
 
My dear friend,

Don’t let these interrogations to be empirical to you, OK!

Have faith and believe in all that Sister Lucia transmitted and wrote with their lack of high studies and left for us.
Only later when already in a convent Sister Lucia put in writings all their experience with FATIMA phenomenon, but along the way until the writings and at the time of the facts, the children have spoken with several people and all them were witnesses of FATIMA.

Do not waste your time trying to imprint in your believes all the FATIMA details you may want to validate for you personal believe.

BELIEVE!!

bye from Portugal
Mike
 
i didnt say i didnt believe.

im just trying to get some facts straight.

thank you
 
itullian said:
so Lucia’s revelation of the prediction was AFTER the death of her cousins NOT before, correct?
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October 1930 - Announcement of Dom Jose Alves Correia da Silva, Bishop of the Diocese of Leiria-Fatima on the Results of the Investigative Commission
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In virtue of considerations made known, and others which for reason of brevity we omit; humbly invoking the Divine Spirit and placing ourselves under the protection of the most Holy Virgin, and after hearing the opinions of our Rev. Advisors in this diocese, we hereby: –
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  1. Declare worthy of belief, the visions of the shepherd children in the Cova da Iria, parish of Fatima, in this diocese, from the 13th May to 13th October, 1917.
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  1. Permit officially the cult of Our Lady of Fatima.
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Here’s the problem. There was a commission that investigated when many of the principals were still alive and could give testimony. It would be then that the families were interviewed and the testimony that the children not only predicted their own deaths, but were delighted about going, would have been taken.

But now, in 2012, when we want “proof” we don’t seem to have translations of 80+ year old documents from the Bishop of what was a fairly obscure province of Portugal posted online for our convenience.

However, if you Google Fatima and start reading the vast wealth of material, you are going to find some pretty complete accounts.
 
i’m just trying to find out if the prediction of the childrens death was known BEFORE they died.
 
itullian said:
i’m just trying to find out if the prediction of the childrens death was known BEFORE they died.
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And I’m just telling you it was but the chance you can prove that, either to yourself or someone else is fairly dim. Possibly some translations of the early interviews are available somewhere online. If you want to know more, you’ll have to do some research. Good luck.
 
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