Qu'ram Science Miracles

[Angelos]

I made a post before that which you should have checked. I was explaining that we were discussing the passage in a class with the imam, and there was a retired neurologist among us in the class, and he was describing how it is necessary for a comatose patient to be turned by the nurses every 2 hours because the tissues the body is laying on will be destroyed because of the pressure.

I know pretty well how those imams interpret the Koran and read into it in order to make a mountain out of a mole hill. I had simply asked you where in the Koran Allah had stated the reason for turning those sleepers to the right and left. Your inference, which is based on the personal interpretation of a certain imam and a “retired neurologist”, does not exist in your scripture. This is what I want to show my friends reading the posts of this thread.

Allah says he turned them on their sides. I’m asking YOU, why even mention it? Why mention the turning? That is what is so interesting, because a body like that MUST be turned, but that probably wasn’t known at the time.

Let’s read the verse and see why the Koran includes that detail into the account of the sleepers:

[18.18] And you might think them awake while they were asleep and We turned them about to the right and to the left, while their dog (lay) outstretching its paws at the entrance; if you looked at them you would certainly turn back from them in flight, and you would certainly be filled with awe because of them.

Apparently, the Koran means that those sleepers were actually dead. However, their bodies were preserved from corruption as their death was likened to a deep sleep. According to the Koran, Allah turned those sleepers to the right and to the left because he wanted them to appear alive and asleep. Since those people in the cave were dead indeed, they could not move in their sleep as alive people always do. This problem was solved through divine inetervention: Allah moved them although they were dead so as to convince people that they were not dead, but asleep.

What did your imam say about that dog “outstretching its paws at the entrance”? Was a similar miracle implied by that? Or the dog’s posture only helped it to appear alive and sleep (not dead) ?

 

[dolphinlove]

Sorta like Catholics, from my perspective, who don’t have an answer to the fact that no reliable historical records exist suggesting Jesus ever existed. That doesn’t seem to bother many here.

I have yet to see one unanswered question thrown at Catholics on this forum.
Secondly, knock yourself out with this link for ‘evidence’

I could post 10 messages per day for Zerinus asking where the gold plates are. He wouldn’t care about that either.

 

[Sam_777]

Sister Amy;3595985:

Allah says he turned them on their sides. I’m asking YOU, why even mention it? Why mention the turning? That is what is so interesting, because a body like that MUST be turned, but that probably wasn’t known at the time.

Apparently, the Koran means that those sleepers were actually dead. However, their bodies were preserved from corruption as their death was likened to a deep sleep. According to the Koran, Allah turned those sleepers to the right and to the left because he wanted them to appear alive and asleep. Since those people in the cave were dead indeed, they could not move in their sleep as alive people always do. This problem was solved through divine inetervention: Allah moved them although they were dead so as to convince people that they were not dead, but asleep.

I personally liked you interpretation about the story , I will tell this to my Mosque cleric in the next lecture (Brainwash), maybe I will be kicked out of the Mosque , because all of our Islamic clerics (those I know) agree with Amy’s interpretation, they like to make Islamic propaganda.

However, I totally agree with you, why God needs to turn them right & left, Jesus raised a person from the death after 4 days, was that dead body turning right & left, I don’t think so, God can heal any wounds that might happen to the body, and how Jesus body stayed dead for three days in the cave, was he turning himself right & left also, I don’t think so, God can heal anything…

 

[Sister_Amy]

No, it doesn’t mean that.

However, their bodies were preserved from corruption as their death was likened to a deep sleep.

And there is a difference.

According to the Koran, Allah turned those sleepers to the right and to the left because he wanted them to appear alive and asleep.

Appear so to WHOM?? Nobody was allowed to approach the cave. So why would it matter what they looked like?

Since those people in the cave were dead indeed,

Nope, they were alive.

they could not move in their sleep as alive people always do.

Recall the example of someone who is COMATOSE.

This problem was solved through divine inetervention: Allah moved them although they were dead so as to convince people that they were not dead, but asleep.

But nobody was allowed to see them, thus what would be the point?

In sum–they weren’t dead, they were alive. Nobody was allowed to approach the cave (by Allah) so nobody could see them lying there. They were turned because in their deep sleep (perhaps like a COMA) they weren’t able to turn themselves. So Allah turned them to prevent tissue damage.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Allah says he turned them on their sides. I’m asking YOU, why even mention it? Why mention the turning? That is what is so interesting, because a body like that MUST be turned, but that probably wasn’t known at the time.

Because everyone knows about bed sores.

The koran mentions a common knowledge, which muslim apologists explains in a scientific way and voila!..you get your dumb miracle.

 

[Delta2]

Ali Sina story his amazing, a lot of disgusting Muhammad’s justice, as a narcissist

Here is a Hadith very, very…gosh ( no words !! )

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4348

Why I left Islam ( Ali Sina history )

I will compile all that evil Hadiths of the “prophet of god”, as a collectionist of bizarres

 

[inJESUS]

In sum–they weren’t dead, they were alive. Nobody was allowed to approach the cave (by Allah) so nobody could see them lying there. They were turned because in their deep sleep (perhaps like a COMA) they weren’t able to turn themselves. So Allah turned them to prevent tissue damage.

did Allah feed them as well because living people in a coma would die without fluids and nutrients ? after all, if Allah had to turn then left and right, he had to provide them with fluids and nutrients as well.

 

[inJESUS]

This is a quote from the above mentioned legend:

At every gate he observes he finds a cross. “Oh God!” he says, " can this be? No matter where I look, left or right, I see the cross before my eyes. I am assaulted by visions for this cannot be dreams. **I can feel and move by head and arms and legs **and if I wanted to I could eat bread for I am even hungry.

I think Allah was training them in their sleep to perform it well while awake

 

[Angelos]

Appear so to WHOM?? Nobody was allowed to approach the cave. So why would it matter what they looked like?

Now you are ignoring the answer given to your question by the Koran:

Surah 18:18 And thou wouldst have deemed them waking though they were asleep, and We caused them to turn over to the right and the left, and their dog stretching out his paws on the threshold.

The Koran makes it clear that the analogy drawn between deep sleep and death made it necessary for the sleepers to change their posture. Since they were not alive, they could not do that by themselves and needed divine intervention to turn aside from time to time as alive people always do.

Nope, they were alive.

You really believe that those people slept for 309 years? If your answer is yes, please answer my questions:

**1)**How come those sleepers did not feel hunger or thirst? Bed-ridden patients are not only turned aside in their beds by their caretakers, but also fed and cleaned!

2) If they were not alive, why could they not move while lying? Why did Allah do the thing those sleepers themselves could have easily done?

3) According to the Koran, Mohammad would have run away from those sleepers if he had seen them in the cave:

Surah 18:18 If thou hadst observed them closely thou hadst assuredly turned away from them in flight, and hadst been filled with awe of them.

Why would Mohammad turn away from those sleepers if he had observed them carefully? Did Mohammad have psychological problems? Was he uncannily afraid of observing alive people in their sleep?

No dear Amy, those sleepers were actually dead although they were made by Allah to seem alive for the sake of the analogy between lying dead and falling asleep.

Recall the example of someone who is COMATOSE.

Those sleepers were in a coma? Who gave them the serum then? Who changed their diapers? I hope it was not Mohammad or Allah

But nobody was allowed to see them, thus what would be the point?

What was Allah’s point in recounting this story to Mohammad then since no one could see them in the cave after all? Although no one could see those sleepers in the cave, Allah turned them to the right and left sides for the sole purpose of attaching credibility to the story and strengthening the analogy between falling asleep and passing away. The dog’s “outstretching its paws to the entrance” served the same purpose.

In sum–they weren’t dead, they were alive. Nobody was allowed to approach the cave (by Allah) so nobody could see them lying there. They were turned because in their deep sleep (perhaps like a COMA) they weren’t able to turn themselves. So Allah turned them to prevent tissue damage.

ROTFL They were not able to eat and drink in their deep sleep! If you do not feed and clean a person in a deep sleep like a COMA, that person will inevitably die from hunger and/or infection!

 

[Angelos]

I personally liked you interpretation about the story , I will tell this to my Mosque cleric in the next lecture (Brainwash), maybe I will be kicked out of the Mosque , because all of our Islamic clerics (those I know) agree with Amy’s interpretation, they like to make Islamic propaganda.

However, I totally agree with you, why God needs to turn them right & left, Jesus raised a person from the death after 4 days, was that dead body turning right & left, I don’t think so, God can heal any wounds that might happen to the body, and how Jesus body stayed dead for three days in the cave, was he turning himself right & left also, I don’t think so, God can heal anything…

Please remember to inform those clerics of my latest post too (The one I had to write in response to Sister Amy’s continuing misinterpretation) !