Qur'anic Straw Men About The Trinity & Christians?

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Beebs:
Excellent job 👍

Oops actual its…
1x1x1=1 (three Persons in one God)
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and the game of semantics continues…
 
Dear Gonzales,

You said:
and the game of semantics continues…

Hmm, but moslems have a hardship to understand trinity. How if I say that God is infinitive (unlimited)?
So, if you want to use + or x:

~ + ~ + ~ = ~ (not become 3 ~)
~ x ~ x ~ = ~

Usually, moslems love to use elementary school simple addition like 1+1+1 to conclude that Christian has 3 Gods. And they cannot evolve into thinking that God can come into three personifications, and still ONE GOD.

Neverland
 
it’s amusing how people keep trying in vain to prove that this concept is logical and rational given the fact that even aquinas admitted that it cannot be proven in this manner . . . as i said, the game continues.
 
Dear Gonzales,

So why you cannot accept that Trinity cannot be explained? It’s moslems who love to point out this funny addition equation about trinity:

1+1+1 = 3.

So we must adjust ourselves to the level of such conception to make them understand.

Neverland
 
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r.gonzales:
it’s amusing how people keep trying in vain to prove that this concept is logical and rational given the fact that even aquinas admitted that it cannot be proven in this manner . . . as i said, the game continues.
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I doubt that Aquinas said this. Where did Aquinas ‘admit’ that the doctrine of the Trinity is not logical or not rational?
 
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r.gonzales:
it’s amusing how people keep trying in vain to prove that this concept is logical and rational given the fact that even aquinas admitted that it cannot be proven in this manner . . . as i said, the game continues.
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the Trinity cannot be proven adequatly by human analogies; we use them to facilitate it coz our minds love analogies to understand. The Trinity is God; if you understand it fully, it means you are God; an easy God is no God 😉
 
Aquinas followed pseudo-Dionysius’ line of thinking in affirming that we can only say what God is not. By this Aquinas simply meant that you cannot affirm anything of God because the concept contained in any word is inadequate to actually describe God who is more perfect than the word can describe. Human language is too inadequate to explain God who is simple.

When we say “God is powerful” or “God knows all” we are affirming true qualities of God, but they do not adequately describe Him. He transcends the meaning of these words.

If God could be known in his full essence, then He would not be God for He would not be infinite. God transcends all creation yet is manifest in creation in due proportion to the thing contemplating Him. Therefore, when I see God in creation, I don’t see God in His essence, that is, I don’t see Him completely. Instead I see Him in proportion to my capacity to see Him.

In regards to the Trinity, I would say it would be well for people to read what Aquinas had to say about it; in a nut shell he said that the Son is God’s intellect and the Holy Spirit is God’s will.

I once had it explained to me in this fashion: Imagine a place that is abundantly familiar to you, like your house. Now you can imagine where the light switches are, where the tv is, where the kitchen is, etc. It is very real to you because it is something you experience a lot. Now imagine that your intellect is so strong that what you imagine BECOMES REAL, but not only becomes real, but BECOMES A PERSON (here language and the analogy get’s me into trouble because in God it doesn’t “become” it simply “is”). This in essence is what the Trinity consists of, three persons in one. The intellect being the Son, and the will being the Holy Spirit. Pretty cool stuff, and why I love Aquinas!
 
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r.gonzales:
it’s amusing how people keep trying in vain to prove that this concept is logical and rational given the fact that even aquinas admitted that it cannot be proven in this manner . . . as i said, the game continues.
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Just because something may not be logical to the human mind does not mean that it’s not logical to God! Do you believe that God should be completely understood by us?
 
More proof, from the Hadith (thanks to inJESUS forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=95327&page=2), that it is highly likely, if not certain, that the Quranic verses i quoted in post #1 were attempting to refute the Christian doctrine of the Trinity and that these Quranic verses are classic examples of the ‘straw man’ logical fallacy.

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 6, Book 60, Number 105:
"Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

…Afterwards the Christians will be called upon and it will be said to them, ‘Who do you use to worship?’ They will say, ‘We used to worship Jesus, the son of Allah.’ It will be said to them, ‘You are liars, for Allah has never taken anyone as a wife or a son,’…"
 
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discipleofJesus:
The Qur’an denounces the “tritheistic” group of “Allah, Jesus and Mary” [Sura 5:116], but the Trinity consists of “Father, Son and Holy Spirit”.

Christians do not believe that Mary and Jesus are Gods beside God. Christians do not believe Mary is God.

Since God is Omniscient, don’t these verses prove that the author of the Quran is not God?
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An interesting subtle note of history here, one of the complaints of some ala carte Catholics is that the Traditional Catholic relationship to Mary as our chief saint is a medieval invention to drum up funding. However, this ancilliary note of the Muslims trying to battle against the Church directly mentions the Early Church’s devotion to Mary. It is tertiary evidence but it is important for it gives a neutral source that proves the Early Church did venerate Mary. Pretty cool.
 
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