R.O.C.K Solid

[anp1215]

1. then go to confession for being so gravely disrespectful towards your mother.

The bottom line is this: perhaps this person struggles with equating personal preference with required form… as apparently many people on this section of the forum do… and his mother is trying to combat that.

I defer to his mother on this one, since the group apparently has a different take on what is reverent music (not necessarily TRASHY as some people have said), but hasn’t been brought to charges on any sort of doctrinal error. We have no right to tell this child to violate a commandment and reject his mother’s entirely valid wishes.

I really can’t “thumbs up” this post enough.

 

[FatHead]

1. then go to confession for being so gravely disrespectful towards your mother.

The bottom line is this: perhaps this person struggles with equating personal preference with required form… as apparently many people on this section of the forum do… and his mother is trying to combat that.

I defer to his mother on this one, since the group apparently has a different take on what is reverent music (not necessarily TRASHY as some people have said), but hasn’t been brought to charges on any sort of doctrinal error. We have no right to tell this child to violate a commandment and reject his mother’s entirely valid wishes.

actually no, praise and worship styled music is not acceptable for mass.

 

[NewsTheMan]

promethius:

since the group apparently has a different take on what is reverent music (not necessarily TRASHY as some people have said), but hasn’t been brought to charges on any sort of doctrinal error.

Sweet! So can I have rap music at Mass? I have a different take on what is reverent

This is not something subjective. There are objective standards to uphold at the Mass. Just because the Pope himself hasn’t issued a statement on this particular group doesn’t mean it’s correct or good. The Church has given guidelines for the Latin Church on what is to be avoided.

Put simply, this kind of music is not reverent, and I don’t even think the group would try to persuade you otherwise. This music is there simply to appeal to the lowest common denominator - it does not raise our hearts, minds and souls to God. It makes us clap our hands and think “yay look how much fun this is”.

At the re-presentation of Christ some things are not appropriate. In fact, many things are not appropriate. That’s why we have rubrics.

 

[FatHead]

Sweet! So can I have rap music at Mass? I have a different take on what is reverent

This is not something subjective. There are objective standards to uphold at the Mass. Just because the Pope himself hasn’t issued a statement on this particular group doesn’t mean it’s correct or good. The Church has given guidelines for the Latin Church on what is to be avoided.

Put simply, this kind of music is not reverent, and I don’t even think the group would try to persuade you otherwise. This music is there simply to appeal to the lowest common denominator - it does not raise our hearts, minds and souls to God. It makes us clap our hands and think “yay look how much fun this is”.

At the re-presentation of Christ some things are not appropriate. In fact, many things are not appropriate. That’s why we have rubrics.

actually, in 2005, the holy father specifically asked that music at so called “youth Masses” be improved.

 

[NewsTheMan]

actually, in 2005, the holy father specifically asked that music at so called “youth Masses” be improved.

I meant, in a facetious way, that the Pope hasn’t spoken directly to this group “R.O.C.K Solid”. But you make a good point

 

[promethius]

actually no, praise and worship styled music is not acceptable for mass.

No one has said that it is protestant “praise and worship” style music. The OP has only stated that the style is “folksy”. You have invented the style of music you want to inject so that you can argue against it, when in reality we have no idea of what is actually being sung.

I will remind about the commandment not to bear false witness.

 

[promethius]

Sweet! So can I have rap music at Mass? I have a different take on what is reverent

This is not something subjective. There are objective standards to uphold at the Mass. Just because the Pope himself hasn’t issued a statement on this particular group doesn’t mean it’s correct or good. The Church has given guidelines for the Latin Church on what is to be avoided.

Put simply, this kind of music is not reverent, and I don’t even think the group would try to persuade you otherwise. This music is there simply to appeal to the lowest common denominator - it does not raise our hearts, minds and souls to God. It makes us clap our hands and think “yay look how much fun this is”.

At the re-presentation of Christ some things are not appropriate. In fact, many things are not appropriate. That’s why we have rubrics.

No one is discussing rap or other protestant “praise and worship” style music. The only thing the OP has stated is that the music is “folksy”. That could be something as simple as the melody is played by a guitar rather than a pipe organ. A guitar or drums does NOT equal immediate and automatic condemnation of a musical piece.

As such, since none of us has any clue what specific songs are being offered, only that the OP thinks the presentation is “folksy” (a vague term none of us can interpret clearly), you have no way of actually stating whether or not this music is reverent.

I will take this opportunity, then, to remind again about the commandment not to bear false witness. Because we have NO knowledge of what music is actually being discussed other than the vague “folksy” we should ALL be responding with “honor your mother in this.”

 

[NewsTheMan]

No one has said that it is protestant “praise and worship” style music. The OP has only stated that the style is “folksy”. You have invented the style of music you want to inject so that you can argue against it, when in reality we have no idea of what is actually being sung.

I will remind about the commandment not to bear false witness.

I will remind you to read what has been posted. I quote.

Their leader said their goal is to play contemporary music to make Mass fun.

And you think this is okay?

Also folk music is not to be played at Mass. Even if Tantum Ergo were to be sung - if it were done with Hip Hop beats and rap style it would be incredibly distasteful and not at all reverent.

 

[NewsTheMan]

No one is discussing rap or other protestant “praise and worship” style music. The only thing the OP has stated is that the music is “folksy”. That could be something as simple as the melody is played by a guitar rather than a pipe organ. A guitar or drums does NOT equal immediate and automatic condemnation of a musical piece.

As such, since none of us has any clue what specific songs are being offered, only that the OP thinks the presentation is “folksy” (a vague term none of us can interpret clearly), you have no way of actually stating whether or not this music is reverent.

I will take this opportunity, then, to remind again about the commandment not to bear false witness. Because we have NO knowledge of what music is actually being discussed other than the vague “folksy” we should ALL be responding with “honor your mother in this.”

First, the music thing has little to do with honour your mother. We’re discussing the music and how appropriate it is. I am not advising the OP to be disobedient or disrespectful so I’m not sure why you see the false dichotomy there.

Secondly, it works both ways with regards to the “We haven’t heard exactly what is being played”. Yes, we haven’t, and so we’re going by what we know. Should we give the benefit of the doubt? Well…

No. Folksy music with guitars has no place in the Mass. Ever. That is not just my personal opinion either, if it weren’t just about my bedtime I’d find the document which says we must avoid bringing the secular into the Mass. Also, see above. This group wants to make Mass “fun”. How utterly offensive to our Lord, and to the youth involved.

 

[promethius]

I will remind you to read what has been posted. I quote.

And you think this is okay?

Let me highlight a few things for you. Contemporary Catholic Liturgical Music includes:

• Gather Us In
• On Eagle’s Wings
• Bread of Life
• The Servant Song
• I am the Bread of Life
• Shepherd Me, Oh God
• Here I am, Lord
• Sing A New Song
• Be Not Afraid
• One Bread, One Body
• Do Not Be Afraid, I am with You
• Unless a Grain of Wheat
• Christ be Our Light
• Now the Green Blade Rises
• Most of the Psalm settings currently used in the mass
• the Mass of Creation liturgical setting

Just because something is contemporary doesn’t mean it is “modern” or has rap beats. Like I said, the only thing we can use to determine what kind of music is the fact that the person has said it sounds “folksy”, which itself is another non-descriptive term.

Also folk music is not to be played at Mass. Even if Tantum Ergo were to be sung - if it were done with Hip Hop beats and rap style it would be incredibly distasteful and not at all reverent.

Hip Hop beats and rap style are not necessarily indicated by the term “contemporary”. In terms of Contemporary Catholic Liturgical music, the term could best be described songs composed for vernacular settings with melodies that are CAPABLE of being played on instruments such as guitars or other plucked string instruments.

Folks music is a poorly defined genre, and in fact most sacred music was, at one time, considered a form of folk music (by the technical definition of folk). Another point of fact about music: most contemporary catholic liturgical music doesn’t fit into the folk category because it is copyrighted and the author is generally known, with a well preserved original setting rather than one which was handed down orally… so in fact most gregorian chants are more “folk” music than contemporary music is.

 

[promethius]

First, the music thing has little to do with honour your mother. We’re discussing the music and how appropriate it is. I am not advising the OP to be disobedient or disrespectful so I’m not sure why you see the false dichotomy there.

When his mother says “I want you to participate in this group” about which we know nothing, and we tell the kid to tell his mom to shove off, what we’re discussing is PRECISELY honoring one’s father and mother.

WE don’t know anything about the group. WE don’t know anything about the music they present other than a couple of vague terms the OP discussed. WE have no insight as to why the mother made this request, and no way of knowing that it is an invalid request.

So how dare we tell this child not to honor his mother?

Secondly, it works both ways with regards to the “We haven’t heard exactly what is being played”. Yes, we haven’t, and so we’re going by what we know. Should we give the benefit of the doubt? Well…

No, we’re going by what the OP, who admittedly has some bias because he doesn’t want to join this group, has told us. We’re not getting the full story here, while the Mom is. This is no different than the people who come and complain about their priest and his abuses, only to find out that the “fruity hippy poem” was the pentecost prayer that has been universal for 500+ years (and yes, that was what someone called it and there were several posters telling the OP to write the bishop before someone pointed out that the OP bias shouldn’t be followed).

It’s a tendency on a forum to regard OPs with sympathy and view their quite obviously emotive posts as objective truth. I’m saying that in this case, the mother knows the situation better than any of us and we have no right to contradict her where we know less.

No. Folksy music with guitars has no place in the Mass. Ever. That is not just my personal opinion either, if it weren’t just about my bedtime I’d find the document which says we must avoid bringing the secular into the Mass. Also, see above. This group wants to make Mass “fun”. How utterly offensive to our Lord, and to the youth involved.

Guitars are no more “secular” than pianos and violins. I agree that the profane should not be introduced, but the presence of a guitar or a drum does not necessarily make something profane.

As to folk music, as I pointed out above, gregorian chant is technically folk music, and I’m fairly certain you wouldn’t deny that gregorian chant has a place in the mass.

As to making the mass fun and engaging, I don’t have any problem with that, nor does the vatican. We are not to regard the mass as a “dreadfully boring time but something we have to do in order to please God.” There are, again, a lot of definitions of “fun”.

 

[FatHead]

Guitars are no more “secular” than pianos and violins.

which is why pianos shouldnt be played in mass either.

 

[DarrenOglesby]

Any instrument can be used for secular purposes. But i think we as Catholics, have gotten carried away with the rythmn of the song or hymn and forget about the words. Which is wrong, and could lead to sin if we are focused on the rythmn rather than the words.

When we sing the words would should mean it, and I believe that we should be able to focus on what we are singing.

This past summer I was at a liturgical conference at a Monastery, and it was a youth conference for High Schoolers. I was fortunate enough to get to signed up during my last year of High School. Although I was already graduated, so I was one of the Older ones, anywho at the 5 day conference we were there ones who filled all the roles, including music… So of course all the music was piano, drums, guitars, bass’s, which I was never a fan of beforehand. But it ended up meaningful, everyone’s focus was on Christ (I hope). And the sacrifice, and it was one of the best weeks of my life so far. God really spoke to me throughout that week.

It is still not my preference of music though

 

[promethius]

which is why pianos shouldnt be played in mass either.

And you base this on what?