Rainbow flag on United Church of Christ

[Polluted]

In a town near me there is a giant rainbow flag posted on the building of a Church bearing Christ’s name. Not to mention they probably preach their teachings are scripture solid.

I’m willing to guess that their posting of that rainbow flag is not in honor of God’s promise to never flood the earth again, which leads me to believe it’s posted as a message that the LGBT lifestyle is supported and all are welcome.

I don’t know what to make of this. It’s not even the support for homosexuals that’s making me upset. It’s the fact that their action of posting an LGBT flag signifies that religion, and anything under it are simply subject to the winds of our current culture. That actions and acceptance, or even changing of doctrine are all fair game to make sure everyone is happy and Church attendance is at a regular level.

What actions has the Catholic Church taken in a similar manner? Take the current popes expedited annilments, or an call to take care of mother earth. I can’t help but feel even our own Church at times makes political moves and sacrifices the sacred in order to keep attendance up, and to help brighten public image.

For those of you who have been born and raised Catholic and have practiced the faith for the bulk of your years, is there any truth to what I’m concerned about? Did you enjoy some steak and bacon this last Friday…IF you know what I mean.

 

[Polluted]

My question is has the Catholic Church over the years watered down doctrine or the sacred over the years to keep attendance up, and keep progressive society off their backs?

 

[pianistclare]

OP, I think you’re fishing for things that aren’t there. If the church pandered to popular opinion, then they’d be packed. Clearly that’s not happening.

 

[Neofight]

My question is has the Catholic Church over the years watered down doctrine or the sacred over the years to keep attendance up, and keep progressive society off their backs?

I find your implication of the Holy Father’s recent encyclical as “watering down doctrine” as uncharitable offensive not to mention just plain wrong!

 

[ChurchSoldier]

My question is has the Catholic Church over the years watered down doctrine or the sacred over the years to keep attendance up, and keep progressive society off their backs?

Many would say “the spirit of Vatican II” was designed to do this…but many would disagee with that as well.

Truth is, the church is called to bring light into the darkness, not become dark.

Pax

 

[Convert_in_99]

What’s wrong with eating meat on non-Lenten Fridays, easing the difficulties of the tribunal, or taking care of our planet?

 

[TyburnTreeHuggr]

I find your implication of the Holy Father’s recent encyclical as “watering down doctrine” as uncharitable offensive not to mention just plain wrong!

Uh oh! The Charity Police better come and shut this thread down!

 

[JonNC]

OP, I think you’re fishing for things that aren’t there. If the church pandered to popular opinion, then they’d be packed. Clearly that’s not happening.

Not necessarily. Liberal Lutheran churches have pandered to popular opinion, and they are not filled. My own confessional synod now panders when it comes to the liturgy. Goodness knows our parishes are not full.

Jon

 

[theropod]

Not to mention they probably preach their teachings are scripture solid.

I don’t think the UCC even tries to make this claim.

 

[Sy_Noe]

In a town near me there is a giant rainbow flag posted on the building of a Church bearing Christ’s name. Not to mention they probably preach their teachings are scripture solid.

I’m willing to guess that their posting of that rainbow flag is not in honor of God’s promise to never flood the earth again, which leads me to believe it’s posted as a message that the LGBT lifestyle is supported and all are welcome.

I don’t know what to make of this. It’s not even the support for homosexuals that’s making me upset. It’s the fact that their action of posting an LGBT flag signifies that religion, and anything under it are simply subject to the winds of our current culture. That actions and acceptance, or even changing of doctrine are all fair game to make sure everyone is happy and Church attendance is at a regular level.

What actions has the Catholic Church taken in a similar manner? Take the current popes expedited annilments, or an call to take care of mother earth. I can’t help but feel even our own Church at times makes political moves and sacrifices the sacred in order to keep attendance up, and to help brighten public image.

For those of you who have been born and raised Catholic and have practiced the faith for the bulk of your years, is there any truth to what I’m concerned about? Did you enjoy some steak and bacon this last Friday…IF you know what I mean.

LGBT persons are welcomed in the UCC especially in congregations that have adopted the ONA (Open and Affirming) designation and are welcomed in all aspects of the faith communtiy. A local UCC pastor near me performs marriage ceremonies for our homosexual brethren and sisters. But I’m not sure I’d say she does because of the way the winds are blowing in current culture. The UCC, long before marriage equality caught on, advocated for civil rights for the LGBT community. On its website it states they believes their faith is 2000 yrs old but their thinking is not. They believe God is still speaking. And the UCC believes the Gospel message of love and compassion, justice and peace are at the very core of the life and ministry of Jesus.

 

[JonNC]

LGBT persons are welcomed in the UCC especially in congregations that have adopted the ONA (Open and Affirming) designation and are welcomed in all aspects of the faith communtiy. A local UCC pastor near me performs marriage ceremonies for our homosexual brethren and sisters. But I’m not sure I’d say she does because of the way the winds are blowing in current culture. The UCC, long before marriage equality caught on, advocated for civil rights for the LGBT community. On its website it states they believes their faith is 2000 yrs old but their thinking is not. They believe God is still speaking. And the UCC believes the Gospel message of love and compassion, justice and peace are at the very core of the life and ministry of Jesus.

First of all, "marriage equality " is a fraudulent term, not only in a Christian sense, but in a secular sense as well. But you make a good point in that the UCC and others, in fact, have performed same gender “marriages” well before the SCOTUS ruling, proving the point that same gender couples have had access to “marriage” for a long time.
As for government "marriage ", Christians share a blame in all this, by allowing government to dictate what marriage is without a constitutional mandate for generations.

The UCC have every right to their beliefs. Christ’s message in Mark 10 :
"But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’[a] 7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; ** so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. " is the affirmation of what a marriage is, and to believe His words does not imply a lack of love, compassion and acceptance for those who are gay.
Jon**

 

[Sy_Noe]

First of all, "marriage equality " is a fraudulent term, not only in a Christian sense, but in a secular sense as well. But you make a good point in that the UCC and others, in fact, have performed same gender “marriages” well before the SCOTUS ruling, proving the point that same gender couples have had access to “marriage” for a long time.
As for government "marriage ", Christians share a blame in all this, by allowing government to dictate what marriage is without a constitutional mandate for generations.

The UCC have every right to their beliefs. Christ’s message in Mark 10 :
"But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’[a] 7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; ** so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. " is the affirmation of what a marriage is, and to believe His words does not imply a lack of love, compassion and acceptance for those who are gay.
Jon**

Just to clarify, I wasn’t making the point that the local UCC pastor I referred to performed marriage ceremonies before the SCOTUS ruling. From my understanding, she began to once it was legal. I don’t even know how many SS marriages she has since celebrated. I only know pictures of the first SS marriage ceremony at her church were posted on the church’s website. Indeed we agree the UCC and others have every right to their beliefs and interpretations of Scripture. And yes marriage between a man and a woman is a type of marriage I think the UCC would even agree.

 

[antihippy79]

Just to clarify, I wasn’t making the point that the local UCC pastor I referred to performed marriage ceremonies before the SCOTUS ruling. From my understanding, she began to once it was legal. I don’t even know how many SS marriages she has since celebrated. I only know pictures of the first SS marriage ceremony at her church were posted on the church’s website. Indeed we agree the UCC and others have every right to their beliefs and interpretations of Scripture. And yes marriage between a man and a woman is a type of marriage I think the UCC would even agree.

Same sex “marriage” has never been illegal.

 

[JonNC]

Just to clarify, I wasn’t making the point that the local UCC pastor I referred to performed marriage ceremonies before the SCOTUS ruling. From my understanding, she began to once it was legal. I don’t even know how many SS marriages she has since celebrated. I only know pictures of the first SS marriage ceremony at her church were posted on the church’s website. Indeed we agree the UCC and others have every right to their beliefs and interpretations of Scripture. And yes marriage between a man and a woman is a type of marriage I think the UCC would even agree.

The only type of marriage is. Steepen a man and a woman. Christ provided no alternative

Jon

 

[Sy_Noe]

The only type of marriage is. Steepen a man and a woman. Christ provided no alternative

Jon

It seems to me, if we are only going to use the words spoken by Christ himself, he didn’t speak about a lot of things. He didn’t speak the words “homosexuality” or “abortion” for that matter. Just because he didn’t speak specifically about SSM, doesn’t mean it can not exist.

In Isaiah 43:19, the Lord told us he does new things. Perhaps a reason why the UCC believes God can and is still speaking.

These links may help you further understand the progressive Christian view even though you and many others do not share it.

religioustolerance.org/mar_bibl0a.htm

patheos.com/blogs/faithforward/2013/03/a-progressive-christian-view-of-marriage-equality/

 

[Sy_Noe]

We could debate this til in faith Christ comes again and not agree. The thing is it appears to me the “the law of God” as you put it, is not interpreted the same in every aspect, nor are our various understandings of God. We Christians, of many stripes, the finite-minded humans that we each are, do have our differences on a number things. Not only in regard to gay rights and SSM but women’s rights, female ordination, open vs closed communion and others. Perhaps not an ideal or perfect situation but this is not heaven on earth. And I can live with this as we await the time our merciful and all knowing Creator, Whom understands our hearts and minds, our experiences, is within our sight. And we each will be in God’s hands. Til that day comes, we walk by faith not by sight. United however in the One most important of all. He Whom breaks down our walls. And I shall only say Amen to that.

 

[JonNC]

=Sy Noe;13591326]It seems to me, if we are only going to use the words spoken by Christ himself, he didn’t speak about a lot of things. He didn’t speak the words “homosexuality” or “abortion” for that matter. Just because he didn’t speak specifically about SSM, doesn’t mean it can not exist.

But it does mean is that it is not a part of God’s revealed plan for us. Marriage, in this case, Christ did speak about, and His words are a clear message. That doesn’t mean anything other than God’s intention in marriage was for a man and a woman. It isn’t a judgement on our part, nor is it a condemnation. It is a simple fact.
Same sex attraction is not a sin, anymore than heterosexual attraction is. But God has set our His law, that a man and a woman make a marriage, and that sexual conduct is reserved for that relationship.

In Isaiah 43:19, the Lord told us he does new things. Perhaps a reason why the UCC believes God can and is still speaking.

New things, Sy, not changed things.

These links may help you further understand the progressive Christian view even though you and many others do not share it.

religioustolerance.org/mar_bibl0a.htm

patheos.com/blogs/faithforward/2013/03/a-progressive-christian-view-of-marriage-equality/

Thanks,
Jon

 

[Sy_Noe]

But it does mean is that it is not a part of God’s revealed plan for us. Marriage, in this case, Christ did speak about, and His words are a clear message. That doesn’t mean anything other than God’s intention in marriage was for a man and a woman. It isn’t a judgement on our part, nor is it a condemnation. It is a simple fact.
Same sex attraction is not a sin, anymore than heterosexual attraction is. But God has set our His law, that a man and a woman make a marriage, and that sexual conduct is reserved for that relationship.

New things, Sy, not changed things.

Thanks,
Jon

You’re welcome.

And knowing this is something we are unlikely to ever agree about and will therefore merely have to agree to disagree, I will just again say and then move on and leave it at this. We do disagree on more things than SSM and other social issues. On theological ones as well. But we are united on something of much more importance, I believe, in our Creator, and Christians, in a belief in Christ.

And I and many others, I am not alone, just see this differently. Marriage between a man and a woman has not changed at all. Indeed quite the opposite. In fact, it still very much exists. Catholics, LCMS, ELCA, TEC, etc, at least any Christian community I am aware of, still will perform a marriage between a man and a woman. Even the UCC, TEC, ELCA, PCUSA still celebrate such marriages. Nothing has changed in that regard.

The United Church of Christ though believes God is still speaking.

And in that case if a UCC house of worship has a rainbow flag out front to let our LGBT brethren and sisters know they are welcome to be a part of their Christian faith community in every way, then I just can’t bring myself to having all that much of a problem with it. Not when no one is forced to be part of any inclusive Christian community. Yet for many others it is such a community in which they seek acceptance and nourishment and love and the Christ they too believe in. So I shall just continue to thank God there are such homes for those who believe and whose desire is to be part of Christ’s body of believers. We can coexist. And the rest I shall leave to God.

Many blessings and much peace always.

 

[JonNC]

You’re welcome.

And knowing this is something we are unlikely to ever agree about and will therefore merely have to agree to disagree, I will just again say and then move on and leave it at this. We do disagree on more things than SSM and other social issues. On theological ones as well. But we are united on something of much more importance, I believe, in our Creator, and Christians, in a belief in Christ.

And I and many others, I am not alone, just see this differently. Marriage between a man and a woman has not changed at all. Indeed quite the opposite. In fact, it still very much exists. Catholics, LCMS, ELCA, TEC, etc, at least any Christian community I am aware of, still will perform a marriage between a man and a woman. Even the UCC, TEC, ELCA, PCUSA still celebrate such marriages. Nothing has changed in that regard.

The United Church of Christ though believes God is still speaking.

And in that case if a UCC house of worship has a rainbow flag out front to let our LGBT brethren and sisters know they are welcome to be a part of their Christian faith community in every way, then I just can’t bring myself to having all that much of a problem with it. Not when no one is forced to be part of any inclusive Christian community. Yet for many others it is such a community in which they seek acceptance and nourishment and love and the Christ they too believe in. So I shall just continue to thank God there are such homes for those who believe and whose desire is to be part of Christ’s body of believers. We can coexist. And the rest I shall leave to God.

Many blessings and much peace always.

And also with you.
Jon

 

[Little_Sheep]

OP, I think you’re fishing for things that aren’t there. If the church pandered to popular opinion, then they’d be packed. Clearly that’s not happening.

TEC gets routinely accused of “pandering to popular opinion” and we’re not packed. Sometimes, I hear talking out of both sides of the mouth with that phrase. Fact is, most organized Christian churches are down in numbers.

That said, I too think the OP may be searching for something that I can’t see.