Raise your hands

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water

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I believe this has been discussed many times, but I’d like to ask for a document.

I don’t raise my hands when praying Our Father or replying to the priest “and also with you”, etc … I am not so much troubled seeing others who are doing it right now…although I get distracted once in awhile.

Is there any Church document you could help me know that the Church advise us not to raise your hands like that?

Thanks!
 
water said:
I believe this has been discussed many times, but I’d like to ask for a document.

I don’t raise my hands when praying Our Father or replying to the priest “and also with you”, etc … I am not so much troubled seeing others who are doing it right now…although I get distracted once in awhile.

Is there any Church document you could help me know that the Church advise us not to raise your hands like that?

Thanks!
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Regardless of what an “expert” from EWTN says …

The truth is that the posture isn’t mentioned at all. The GIRM does not mention posture for the faithful at all. You are free to do as you wish.
 
Paix, that particular expert is the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. If anyone is an “expert”, they are.

I am less concerned with the people in the pews doing it. To me, it’s when the priest either does it, or asks the congregation to do it. It’s clearly a posture that is not a part of the liturgy, that focuses the attention on the wrong thing and can be incredibly distracting.
 
NetNuncio said:
Paix, that particular expert is the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. If anyone is an “expert”, they are.

I am less concerned with the people in the pews doing it. To me, it’s when the priest either does it, or asks the congregation to do it. It’s clearly a posture that is not a part of the liturgy, that focuses the attention on the wrong thing and can be incredibly distracting.
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To be brutally honest - I didn’t even read the link. I generally dismiss what EWTN trots out because too often they have their own people promoting their own viewpoint.

So maybe for once they hit a diamond in the rough.
 
PaixGioiaAmor said:
To be brutally honest - I didn’t even read the link. I generally dismiss what EWTN trots out because too often they have their own people promoting their own viewpoint.

So maybe for once they hit a diamond in the rough.
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Then how the heck can you respond to something if you don’t read the link provided?
And EWTN provides unbiased responses to questions regarding the faith.
 
PaixGioiaAmor said:
Regardless of what an “expert” from EWTN says …

The truth is that the posture isn’t mentioned at all. The GIRM does not mention posture for the faithful at all. You are free to do as you wish.
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This is something that I had liked to think and guessed that people thought the same thing.

When reading Akin’s page:
Standing means standing without doing anything fancy with your arms. It is distinct, for example, from the orans posture, which the priest uses when he stands and prays with arms outstretched. It is also distinct from the hand-holding posture.
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Now, we see people doing this orans posture as a priest does.
 
water said:
This is something that I had liked to think and guessed that people thought the same thing.

When reading Akin’s page:

Now, we see people doing this orans posture as a priest does.
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So Akin said it, so it is the liturgical law?
 
PaixGioiaAmor said:
Regardless of what an “expert” from EWTN says …

The truth is that the posture isn’t mentioned at all. The GIRM does not mention posture for the faithful at all. You are free to do as you wish.
Click to expand...
You’re right. I’m going to start doing pushups in the aisles during the Pater Noster next time I’m at Mass. :eek: 😛
 
To each his own…

I find it to be slightly embarrassing and a bit dorky looking when the person next to me either gyrates and tosses their arms out as if receiving some magical power from above, or practically scratches me trying to catch my hand.

🤷

Yes, this might be a tad more bitter than my usual posts. I just had a bad experience. 🤷
 
PaixGioiaAmor said:
So Akin said it, so it is the liturgical law?
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Let’s remember that all the links we have seen are commentaries on a Dubium et Responsum. The Congregation for Divine Worship said it, which I think is a very good source!
 
Should I compare this "Where in GIRM say I cannot raise my hand " to “Show me what it says in the Bible, then I would believe?” 😃

Anyway, my question has been answered. I should not make more comments.
 
Some documentation:

1963 Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM at vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html

“30. To promote active participation, the people should be encouraged to take part by means of acclamations, responses, psalmody, antiphons, and songs, as well as by actions, gestures, and bodily attitudes. And at the proper times all should observe a reverent silence.
31. The revision of the liturgical books must carefully attend to the provision of rubrics also for the people’s parts.”

So if people should do something, there should be a rubric telling them to do it.

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“42. … A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants.”

So a special posture, an individual posture, a posture not in the rubrics, is at odds with this.

1997 Instruction ON CERTAIN QUESTIONS REGARDING
THE COLLABORATION OF THE NON-ORDAINED
FAITHFUL IN THE SACRED MINISTRY OF PRIEST at vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/documents/rc_con_interdic_doc_15081997_en.html
Article 6, §2:
“… In eucharistic celebrations deacons and non-ordained members of the faithful may not pronounce prayers — e.g. especially the eucharistic prayer, with its concluding doxology — or any other parts of the liturgy reserved to the celebrant priest. Neither may deacons or non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures or actions which are proper to the same priest celebrant. …”.

From the GIRM:
“152. After the Eucharistic Prayer is concluded, the priest, with hands joined, says the introduction to the Lord’s Prayer. With hands extended, he then says this prayer together with the people.”
 
PaixGioiaAmor said:
Regardless of what an “expert” from EWTN says …

The truth is that the posture isn’t mentioned at all. The GIRM does not mention posture for the faithful at all. You are free to do as you wish.
Click to expand...
Does it say antying about screaming AMEN randomly during the mass? Cuase if it doenst I like to do it… I mean it makes me feel good to do it and close to God. People this isnt about pushing the limits of what the rules are and finding loopholes, its about Christ and his glorification and adoration during the mass, not about what makes me feel good. Man, swollow your pride for a change.
 
There is no prescribed position in the U.S. for posture of the laity during the Lord’s Prayer. You can read a short blurb on it at the USCCB website:

usccb.org/liturgy/q%26a/mass/orans.shtml

I remember reading a longer document at the website, but don’t have the time to search for it right now.

Our parish council brought this up with the pastor at my last parish. Most people wanted the hand-holding to stop; some non-hand-holders wanted to adopt the Orans position, others just wanted people to stand there. The final consensus, after searching church documents, was that individual postures were fine but that no one should be forced into a posture by their pewmates.

I think that as long as no one is trying to force you to adopt a posture that you are uncomfortable with, then there’s no problem. I’m from the South, where hand-holding and gesturing are quite common, but I don’t hold hands with others, and don’t adopt the Orans position. I’ve never had anyone try to force me to hold hands with them, though I realize others haven’t been so lucky.

I think posture does become a problem when altar servers and the priest are holding hands (not allowed), and people start making “daisy chains” across the aisle (ridiculous and goofy).
 
This question has been put to the experts at CDW with the question and response posted at the above link: ewtn.com/expert/answers/holding_hands_at_mass.htm

The paragraph containing the QUERY and the REPLY consist of the specific question asked of CDW and their reply.

The rest of the posting is commentary and explanation from Colin Donovan, one of EWTN’s experts. You are free to question and even disregard Mr. Donovan’s credentials as you wish. You are even free to ignore and disregard his commentary and explanation of the matter. However what follows the word REPLY in the first paragraph is a ruling directly from CDW. They are the authority on the matter and we are to follow their rulings.

However, neither the QUERY, its REPLY, nor Mr. Donovan’s commentary actually address the OP’s question. CDW addresses holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer in place of sharing a sign of peace at the appropriate time later in the Mass. Mr. Donovan’s commentary uses that answer to denounce the practice of holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer, period.

Mr. Donovan appears to be misusing evidence to back his position, and thus has impeached his own credibility.
 
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