Rambunctiousness in Heaven?

[TK421]

We see that present creation is distorted because of the existence of sin and our lack of perfect communion with God. There exists disease, pain, hunger, and material dangers in this present life. This is present not only in the human race, but in all of creation as well.

How then should we handle the witnessing of certain events, such as the nature we see in certain animals? For example, almost all of us would take joy in a rambunctious kitten playfully biting and clawing at a person’s hand. We probably aren’t going to think to ourselves “How awful!”. Even in the natural world, where there is death and violent competition, we would watch in awe as an eagle swoops down and snatches a fish with its talons. Such events, if anything, bring us closer to God rather than further.

Since this is not something that is defined as evil, but as good, then should we assume that these qualities will be reflected in Heaven in some manner? Though there will no longer be death, will there remain a quality of ‘rambunctiousness’ in the human soul?

 

[Starrsmother]

Maybe. Good question–but who really knows? Some folks believe that animals won’t even exist in heaven–that they have no souls. I choose to hope they will–I mean there’s nothing that says it is totally impossible—and I have a couple of dogs I’d love to spend eternity with.

I remember that Jesus told someone who questioned Him about marriage in heaven, that there was no such thing there–there would be no need for it. Having said that, I believe that love is eternal–and so I choose to hope and believe that my parents will know and recognize each other and me–and still love me and vise versa, as well as my husband my kids and myself. To that end, I’d also love to see animals in heaven–with the exception of spiders and snakes—unless they were muzzled! But somehow I think the whole needing to eat thing may not exist after death–so there probably would be no need for “killing behaviors” which animals demonstrate on earth now–but that’s just my personal opinion!. LOL!

 

[Beryllos]

Maybe. Good question–but who really knows? Some folks believe that animals won’t even exist in heaven–that they have no souls. I choose to hope they will–I mean there’s nothing that says it is totally impossible—and I have a couple of dogs I’d love to spend eternity with.

I remember that Jesus told someone who questioned Him about marriage in heaven, that there was no such thing there–there would be no need for it. Having said that, I believe that love is eternal–and so I choose to hope and believe that my parents will know and recognize each other and me–and still love me and vise versa, as well as my husband my kids and myself. To that end, I’d also love to see animals in heaven–with the exception of spiders and snakes—unless they were muzzled! But somehow I think the whole needing to eat thing may not exist after death–so there probably would be no need for “killing behaviors” which animals demonstrate on earth now–but that’s just my personal opinion!. LOL!

Interesting. Let’s examine Genesis 1:29-30:

God said, “See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.

By this account, every animal in paradise ate only plants. That was before the fall.

So it is not out of the question that animals in heaven will not kill.

See also Isaiah 65:

17 For I am about to create new heavens and a new earth; the former things shall not be remembered or come to mind.
…
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, the lion shall eat straw like the ox; but the serpent—its food shall be dust! They shall not hurt or destroy on all my holy mountain, says the Lord.

 

[Starrsmother]

Interesting. Let’s examine Genesis 1:29-30:

By this account, every animal in paradise ate only plants. That was before the fall.

So it is not out of the question that animals in heaven will not kill.

See also Isaiah 65:

I think I didn’t state myself clearly—sorry. What I meant was that I don’t think it is ridiculous to hope that animals will exist in heaven–and I’m not sure that in heaven food is a necessity for anyone or anything, so I’m uncertain that anyone (people, critters, etc.) would be needing to kill anything to eat–IF animals even do exist in heaven I fully admit that I have no religious basis for this hope—and I know many folks who say that animals cannot exist in heaven as they have no souls. I just continue to hope that God’s understanding on this issue is different from those folks with the expert opinions who say it’s impossible for animals to be part of the afterlife. For one thing–I really love my pup–their lives here are so short–they are so kind–and I just hope that somehow God has provided for them. But, I will just have to wait and see, huh?

 

[boomerang]

Yes, there is. In heaven there are fiestas, mariachi bands, dining and drinking, kissing, fist fights, piñata whacking, Irish step dancing and trampolines. But only in Catholic heaven. Protestant heaven has badminton and croquet, nothing more. This was confirmed by the Simpsons, and you and I both know that the Simpsons wouldn’t make up stories about something as important as the afterlife. en.gloria.tv/?media=93470

 

[Starrsmother]

Yes, there is. In heaven there are fiestas, mariachi bands, dining and drinking, kissing, fist fights, piñata whacking, Irish step dancing and trampolines. But only in Catholic heaven. Protestant heaven has badminton and croquet, nothing more. This was confirmed by the Simpsons, and you and I both know that the Simpsons wouldn’t make up stories about something as important as the afterlife. en.gloria.tv/?media=93470

LOL!! I’m a Texan and you had me at the drinking–especially if margaritas are involved! And thank goodness there’s one heaven for protestants and another for Catholics–I’d sure hate to land in heaven, only to learn that some Baptist minister was appointed to be my cloud leader and so I couldn’t even dance! See, I totally hope to “dirty dance” with old Patrick Swayze some day! And hopefully my dog can dance with his dog at the very same time!:thumbsup:

 

[Beryllos]

I think I didn’t state myself clearly—sorry…

Oops! maybe I wasn’t clear… I thought I was agreeing with you, and citing scripture in support.

Did you like the bit in Isaiah about the serpent?

 

[Beryllos]

Yes, there is. In heaven there are fiestas, mariachi bands, dining and drinking, kissing, fist fights, piñata whacking, Irish step dancing and trampolines. But only in Catholic heaven. Protestant heaven has badminton and croquet, nothing more. This was confirmed by the Simpsons, and you and I both know that the Simpsons wouldn’t make up stories about something as important as the afterlife. en.gloria.tv/?media=93470

 

[Starrsmother]

Oops! maybe I wasn’t clear… I thought I was agreeing with you, and citing scripture in support.

Did you like the bit in Isaiah about the serpent?

Thanks!
I did like it!

 

[mytruepower2]

We see that present creation is distorted because of the existence of sin and our lack of perfect communion with God. There exists disease, pain, hunger, and material dangers in this present life. This is present not only in the human race, but in all of creation as well.

How then should we handle the witnessing of certain events, such as the nature we see in certain animals? For example, almost all of us would take joy in a rambunctious kitten playfully biting and clawing at a person’s hand. We probably aren’t going to think to ourselves “How awful!”. Even in the natural world, where there is death and violent competition, we would watch in awe as an eagle swoops down and snatches a fish with its talons. Such events, if anything, bring us closer to God rather than further.

Since this is not something that is defined as evil, but as good, then should we assume that these qualities will be reflected in Heaven in some manner? Though there will no longer be death, will there remain a quality of ‘rambunctiousness’ in the human soul?

To be in Heaven is to be in the closest possible proximity to God, who is the source and true nature of all goodness.

Therefore, in Heaven, all goodness will be immediately present, and no evil will be.

In this particular example, what this means is that rambunctiousness would continue to exist, as a good thing, while the harm sometimes caused by it would not exist, as a bad thing.

 

[Starrsmother]

To be in Heaven is to be in the closest possible proximity to God, who is the source and true nature of all goodness.

Therefore, in Heaven, all goodness will be immediately present, and no evil will be.

In this particular example, what this means is that rambunctiousness would continue to exist, as a good thing, while the harm sometimes caused by it would not exist, as a bad thing.

I hope this is how it really is. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if all the beautiful animals we so admire now–not only dogs and cats, but lions, tigers, elephants etc—would all be in heaven and that we could walk right up to one with no fear? True or not, it’s a wonderful thing to hope for here on earth!

 

[mytruepower2]

I hope this is how it really is. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if all the beautiful animals we so admire now–not only dogs and cats, but lions, tigers, elephants etc—would all be in heaven and that we could walk right up to one with no fear? True or not, it’s a wonderful thing to hope for here on earth!

Yes. I think this is most likely to be true, because I’m just repeating the kind of logic used by Saint Thomas Aquinas.

With regard to there being no animals in Heaven, merely because they lack spirits, I would point out that oceans, mountains, wildflowers and trees all lack spirits as well, and yet, each is a good thing, so one could not be in possession of all goodness without at least some semblance of each, and the same, I would argue, is true of animals.

 

[TK421]

The thrust of my inquiry wasn’t about animals in Heaven (speculatively, I think animals will both exist in Heaven and in infinitely greater variety than what is presently seen), but about the qualities we see in the present life continuing to exist in Heaven. Because the playfulness of a kitten is not judged to be evil, it would follow that such playfulness would exist in Heaven as well, and only the death sometimes associated with that playfulness will be no more. What is evil on Earth is a weak shadow of what is evil beyond, and what is good on Earth is a weak shadow of what is good beyond.