Rant about capitalism

[minkymurph]

I have often posted in this forum in regard to regulation of capitalism. To be clear, I have no objection to marketing as this is a necessary element of generating business,the growth entrepenuralism has afforded many individuals opportunities they would not have were they working for someone else - particularly women as it enables them to care for their kids yet run a lifestyle business. Irrespective of the fact we may not like certain elements of capitalism we all buy into it to some extent but things have got to be ridiculous, hence the rant.

I have a notice on my door that states no free newspapers or junk mail, yet in they come and go straight into the recycling bin. On one occasion I received a total of eight of these items in one foul swoop. My personal details appear to be available to everyone and anyone, In my part of the world debt is a huge problem yet I am regularly plagued by companies who want to give me a credit card in spite of the fact I already have two. Every time I go to the local shopping centre I am accosted by someone selling something I neither want nor need and they are mortally offended when I am not interested, I have flyers shoved into my hand that I immediately place in a nearby bin, along with all the other flyers that have been handed out that have not escaped the bin and are blowing up the street.

I have now reached my wits end. Recently I was charged £30 as a result of my bank account being overdrawn by £7 for one day. I asked the bank for a £50 overdraft to prevent this happening again as money comes into my account at various times and it would cover me for any lapses. They refused on the ground they need to be a responsible lender. In being a responsible lender they increased the credit limit on my credit card to £1 500. The crunch came when I opened my front door to young man who wanted me to sign up to a direct debit for a charity. When I refused he asked why and I said what I always say to people who ask you to sign up to a direct debit for a charity. I currently pay direct debits to three charities, I cannot give to any more and cannot single handed save the world. I also added that when heart rendering adverts for charities are on tv, and now there is an abundance of such adverts, I leave the room for reasons I stated but the young man was not to be deterred, and suggested I stop giving to one of the charities I support and give to his instead because they do so much more. I suggested he target people who don’t give to charity at all. Here endeth the rant.

My argument is the following require greater regulation; obtaining individuals personal details, the frequency with which individuals are contacted, door drops and flyers, credit, and marketing charities. On a final note, my town centre is like a ghost town and small well established concerns are dying on their feet because of monopolies and lack of assistance and support for small businesses. They deserve better. Is anyone with me?

 

[Rosebud77]

I have often posted in this forum in regard to regulation of capitalism. To be clear, I have no objection to marketing as this is a necessary element of generating business,the growth entrepenuralism has afforded many individuals opportunities they would not have were they working for someone else - particularly women as it enables them to care for their kids yet run a lifestyle business. Irrespective of the fact we may not like certain elements of capitalism we all buy into it to some extent but things have got to be ridiculous, hence the rant.

I have a notice on my door that states no free newspapers or junk mail, yet in they come and go straight into the recycling bin. On one occasion I received a total of eight of these items in one foul swoop. My personal details appear to be available to everyone and anyone, In my part of the world debt is a huge problem yet I am regularly plagued by companies who want to give me a credit card in spite of the fact I already have two. Every time I go to the local shopping centre I am accosted by someone selling something I neither want nor need and they are mortally offended when I am not interested, I have flyers shoved into my hand that I immediately place in a nearby bin, along with all the other flyers that have been handed out that have not escaped the bin and are blowing up the street.

I have now reached my wits end. Recently I was charged £30 as a result of my bank account being overdrawn by £7 for one day. I asked the bank for a £50 overdraft to prevent this happening again as money comes into my account at various times and it would cover me for any lapses. They refused on the ground they need to be a responsible lender. In being a responsible lender they increased the credit limit on my credit card to £1 500. The crunch came when I opened my front door to young man who wanted me to sign up to a direct debit for a charity. When I refused he asked why and I said what I always say to people who ask you to sign up to a direct debit for a charity. I currently pay direct debits to three charities, I cannot give to any more and cannot single handed save the world. I also added that when heart rendering adverts for charities are on tv, and now there is an abundance of such adverts, I leave the room for reasons I stated but the young man was not to be deterred, and suggested I stop giving to one of the charities I support and give to his instead because they do so much more. I suggested he target people who don’t give to charity at all. Here endeth the rant.

My argument is the following require greater regulation; obtaining individuals personal details, the frequency with which individuals are contacted, door drops and flyers, credit, and marketing charities. On a final note, my town centre is like a ghost town and small well established concerns are dying on their feet because of monopolies and lack of assistance and support for small businesses. They deserve better. Is anyone with me?

Feeling for you … I live in deep rural Kerry and none of these annoyances occur. Only fliers etc I get are the local supermarket maildrop and i used them in the cat;s litter trays. Anything else irrelevant goes the same way; I do not notice it really
I am sure you CAN limit mail; mailing preferences?

I am a mile down a dirt track and no one comes here like that. I gather that in cases like yours a recording of a barking dog works a treat…I have the real thing and yep!

Sure there are empty shops in our towns but I think this is the same all over and n the boom years folk overreached and then crashed?

I cannot imagine the invasive behaviour you are getting. While I have a phone, an IP model, I never leave it plugged in and my arrangement with family is that they email or I call them … ie you can achieve a great deal of privacy with thought.

Wishing you well, and that it gets to seem easier for you soon…I choose rural of course, for the peace and privacy but I think there are always adaptations you can make… I chose this method re the phone when I had a landlord who thought it was OK to call anytime he wanted…

Blessings and peace

 

[john_ennis]

I would never tolerate that a solicitor, for a charity or a product, ask me why I won’t contribute. When I say, “Sorry, I won’t be able to help,” I expect that to be enough–although I may have to repeat the phrase five times as they go through their script of persuasive pleas.

I’m not sure if the culture in Ireland is different about this. Here, it’s like, “Hey, you came to me asking for money–don’t demand that I explain to you how I spend my money.”

If they did, I’d lead them into an annoying discussion about how much they’re doing to protect the unborn.

 

[Rosebud77]

I would never tolerate that a solicitor, for a charity or a product, ask me why I won’t contribute. When I say, “Sorry, I won’t be able to help,” I expect that to be enough–although I may have to repeat the phrase five times as they go through their script of persuasive pleas.

I’m not sure if the culture in Ireland is different about this. Here, it’s like, “Hey, you came to me asking for money–don’t demand that I explain to you how I spend my money.”

If they did, I’d lead them into an annoying discussion about how much they’re doing to protect the unborn.

Been in Ireland 15 years and I can clearly and honesty say that the “culture” is like nowhere else on earth…

 

[LethalMouse]

So we have Junk mail to you is like getting punched in the face.

You have a poor ability to say “No thank you” and walk away so someone asking you for chairty is intolerable.

You have poor money management and it is the worlds fault if you overdraft EVEN tho in lieu of an extra overdraft you could use your CC responsibly and nit have to worry “when” money comes in.

A good chunk if your issues aren’t even tied to capitalism…

So you want to regulate the rest of the humans in existence so they can’t send you mail or knock on your door…

You sir, need to work on you.if a piece of paper destroys your existence for a day, you have serious issues.

 

[Tomdstone]

It is important to be careful on overdrafts.

 

[john_ennis]

Been in Ireland 15 years and I can clearly and honesty say that the “culture” is like nowhere else on earth…

I believe it. Probably true of every culture, in a way.

Capitalism, like every human system, including religion, shows the warts of our human nature. In some countries, the in-your-face nature of selling things is more obnoxious than in others. I hope you can adopt a routine of dealing with it which does not forget that it’s a human being on the other side.

“Sorry, I won’t be able to help” has worked well for me for years. I repeat it, without elaborating at all.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

I would never tolerate that a solicitor, for a charity or a product, ask me why I won’t contribute. When I say, “Sorry, I won’t be able to help,” I expect that to be enough–although I may have to repeat the phrase five times as they go through their script of persuasive pleas.

I’m not sure if the culture in Ireland is different about this. Here, it’s like, “Hey, you came to me asking for money–don’t demand that I explain to you how I spend my money.”

If they did, I’d lead them into an annoying discussion about how much they’re doing to protect the unborn.

We call them “chuggers”, i.e. charity muggers. I’ve never had them call to the door, but they do accost you in the street and try to manipulate you into giving to their charity because they get commission for each person that signs up. They usually start off with a complement to their victim (I was eating on the go once and was told that my sandwich looked amazing…) and then proceed to harangue them for ages about why they need to sign up for direct debit. I do my best to avoid them, even if it means zig-zagging across the street to bypass them all

 

[MT1926]

Let me start by saying life can get tough at times and I feel your pain. I said a prayer for you.

I have a notice on my door that states no free newspapers or junk mail, yet in they come and go straight into the recycling bin. On one occasion I received a total of eight of these items in one foul swoop. My personal details appear to be available to everyone and anyone, In my part of the world debt is a huge problem yet I am regularly plagued by companies who want to give me a credit card in spite of the fact I already have two. Every time I go to the local shopping centre I am accosted by someone selling something I neither want nor need and they are mortally offended when I am not interested, I have flyers shoved into my hand that I immediately place in a nearby bin, along with all the other flyers that have been handed out that have not escaped the bin and are blowing up the street.

My advise, don’t sweat the small stuff. I have a daily garbage can full of junk mail. It is what it is. If the credit card applications bug you that much do what a patient of mine does. Here in America they usually come with a prepaid return envelope. She usually opens her mail throws away anything that has her name on it and takes every other piece of junk mail for the day and shoves it into the credit card companies return envelope and mails it back to them. Not worth my time or energy, but she enjoys it.

I have now reached my wits end. Recently I was charged £30 as a result of my bank account being overdrawn by £7 for one day. I asked the bank for a £50 overdraft to prevent this happening again as money comes into my account at various times and it would cover me for any lapses. They refused on the ground they need to be a responsible lender. In being a responsible lender they increased the credit limit on my credit card to £1 500.

Banks can be ruthless with their overdraft charges and fees. I get around this by hiding an extra 5 or 10 dollars every month by not recording it in my check register. It’s amazing how quickly that builds up, I currently leave an extra $1500 of cushion in my account to protect me from over drafting.

The crunch came when I opened my front door to young man who wanted me to sign up to a direct debit for a charity. When I refused he asked why and I said what I always say to people who ask you to sign up to a direct debit for a charity. I currently pay direct debits to three charities, I cannot give to any more and cannot single handed save the world. I also added that when heart rendering adverts for charities are on tv, and now there is an abundance of such adverts, I leave the room for reasons I stated but the young man was not to be deterred, and suggested I stop giving to one of the charities I support and give to his instead because they do so much more. I suggested he target people who don’t give to charity at all. Here endeth the rant.

I usually respond to these people positively and tell them I am always interested to give to charities. I ask them for their website so I can look into the charity and see all of the wonderful things they accomplish so I can decide how much I want to give. Vary rarely do I get a response because the majority of them don’t want you to know where the money is going.

My argument is the following require greater regulation; obtaining individuals personal details, the frequency with which individuals are contacted, door drops and flyers, credit, and marketing charities. On a final note, my town centre is like a ghost town and small well established concerns are dying on their feet because of monopolies and lack of assistance and support for small businesses. They deserve better. Is anyone with me?

Yeah sorry ain’t gonna happen. We live in a self serving world. Until “Love thy neighbor” comes back into the picture don’t hold your breath.

As I said above, don’t sweat the small stuff, the last thing I want is some credit card application giving you a heart attack.

 

[Vouthon]

The Church does not positively promote a single economic system as a definitive model for Catholics (since it isn’t within the Church’s remit to provide technical solutions to problems of the day).

Indeed She has been more wont to criticize the perceived flaws in prevailing economic theories from a moralistic standpoint.

Nonetheless the Church has - in a sense - “recognised” the Social Market Economy in Germany as being, perhaps, the most ideal system that is currently available and already functioning for the present time. Numerous popes and ecclesiastical leaders have praised the beneficences of this economic model - a model that is explicitly indebted in its origins to Catholic Social Teaching.

For instance, Pope Francis spoke openly about the SME model as recently as this year in a major address at the Vatican, when he received the Charlemagne Prize for his contribution to the cause of European Unity:

w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/speeches/2016/may/documents/papa-francesco_20160506_premio-carlo-magno.html

The just distribution of the fruits of the earth and human labour is not mere philanthropy. It is a moral obligation.[7] If we want to rethink our society, we need to create dignified and well-paying jobs, especially for our young people.

To do so requires coming up with new, more inclusive and equitable economic models, aimed not at serving the few, but at benefiting ordinary people and society as a whole. This calls for moving from a liquid economy to a social economy; I think for example of the social market economy encouraged by my predecessors (cf. JOHN PAUL II, Address to the Ambassador of the Federal Republic of Germany, 8 November 1990). It would involve passing from an economy directed at revenue, profiting from speculation and lending at interest, to a social economy that invests in persons by creating jobs and providing training.

We need to move from a liquid economy prepared to use corruption as a means of obtaining profits to a social economy that guarantees access to land and lodging through labour. Labour is in fact the setting in which individuals and communities bring into play “many aspects of life: creativity, planning for the future, developing talents, living out values, relating to others, giving glory to God. It follows that, in the reality of today’s global society, it is essential that we ‘continue to prioritize the role of access to steady employment for everyone, no matter the limited interests of business and dubious economic reasoning’[8]” (Encyclical Laudato Si’, 127).

If we want a dignified future, a future of peace for our societies, we will only be able to achieve it by working for genuine inclusion, “an inclusion which provides worthy, free, creative, participatory and solidary work”.[9] This passage (from a liquid economy to a social economy) will not only offer new prospects and concrete opportunities for integration and inclusion, but will makes us once more capable of envisaging that humanism of which Europe has been the cradle and wellspring.

Wikipedia actually has a very well-written article on the SME:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy

**The social market economy (German: Soziale Marktwirtschaft) is a social and economic system combining free market capitalism which supports private enterprise, alongside social policies which establish both fair competition within the market and a welfare state.[1][2] It is sometimes classified as a coordinated market economy.[3] The social market economy was originally promoted and implemented in West Germany by the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) under Chancellor Konrad Adenauer in 1949.[4] Its origins can be traced to the interwar Freiburg school of economic thought.[5]

The social market economy was designed to be a third way between laissez-faire economic liberalism and socialist economics.[6] It was strongly inspired by ordoliberalism,[7] social democratic ideas, and the tradition of Catholic social teaching** or, more generally, Christian ethics.[6]

The social market economy refrains from attempts to plan and guide production, the workforce, or sales, but it does support planned efforts to influence the economy through the organic means of a comprehensive economic policy coupled with flexible adaptation to market studies. Effectively combining monetary, credit, trade, tax, customs, investment, and social policies, as well as other measures, this type of economic policy creates an economy that serves the welfare and needs of the entire population, thereby fulfilling its ultimate goal.[8]

 

[LethalMouse]

Nonetheless the Church has - in a sense - “recognised” the Social Market Economy in Germany as being, perhaps, the most ideal system that is currently available and already functioning for the present time. Numerous popes and ecclesiastical leaders have praised the beneficences of this economic model - a model that is explicitly indebted in its origins to Catholic Social Teaching.

For instance, Pope Francis spoke openly about the SME model as recently as this year in a major address at the Vatican, when he received the Charlemagne Prize for his contribution to the cause of European Unity:

I haven’t followed Germany so I won’t say of its economic system as good or bad…

But I have seen of 2 concerning things the first may or may not be tied to their system in anyway.

Which is people going to other countries because apparently homeschooling is illegal there and you are forced secular left school. Without due research I can’t say that the levels and details were not blown out of proportion in the new blurb I heard, but it was suggested to be rather concerning.

The second tied to Germany’s economic system and the church for sure was a post made by a poster in this very forum. An article linked that expressed the issues with registered catholics as there is a religion tax in Germany. It does in positive actually go to the church you claim but it is forced tithe and taxed but not onto those who do not register.

Many said the Clergy should push for a elimination of the forced tax to allow the focus to be on being Catholic and not avoiding financial troubles…the clergy said the people need to behave and register…

Of course this was of the human side of clergy and nothing infallible… But while people speak fallibly of the positives of a system of financial extortion from which they benefit, I question the quality of their decision making on the subject and motives contained therein.

When Germany’s system isn’t writing a check to someone I will better believe that someone’s claims of good/bad

 

[jaimeleglise]

I remember seeing on “60 minutes” years ago a man from Vermont who was on many junk mail lists. In fact, he might have placed himself on some of these on purpose. This was before we had spam e-mail, or Internet for that matter.

Anyway, he would collect all his junk mail and keep it in one place. Then he would burn it in his old fashioned stove and heat his house free of charge every long, Northern winter.

 

[SilverShadow22]

I remember seeing on “60 minutes” years ago a man from Vermont who was on many junk mail lists. In fact, he might have placed himself on some of these on purpose. This was before we had spam e-mail, or Internet for that matter.

Anyway, he would collect all his junk mail and keep it in one place. Then he would burn it in his old fashioned stove and heat his house free of charge every long, Northern winter.

They make roller-things for turning newspapers into fireplace/woodstove logs…

 

[Theo520]

Fundraising for charity is just another business, and the people going door to door are likely paid on commission.

Too much regulation is the reason behind most monopolies and why small businesses are struggling.

 

[Rosebud77]

I remember seeing on “60 minutes” years ago a man from Vermont who was on many junk mail lists. In fact, he might have placed himself on some of these on purpose. This was before we had spam e-mail, or Internet for that matter.

Anyway, he would collect all his junk mail and keep it in one place. Then he would burn it in his old fashioned stove and heat his house free of charge every long, Northern winter.

Love it! I use any I get as I do paper packaging, on the cats trays or to light the fire. Not had to buy firelighters for years. And I reuse plain envelopes

 

[Rosebud77]

We call them “chuggers”, i.e. charity muggers. I’ve never had them call to the door, but they do accost you in the street and try to manipulate you into giving to their charity because they get commission for each person that signs up. They usually start off with a complement to their victim (I was eating on the go once and was told that my sandwich looked amazing…) and then proceed to harangue them for ages about why they need to sign up for direct debit. I do my best to avoid them, even if it means zig-zagging across the street to bypass them all

I see few out here and from the get go tell them that every spare cent i have goes already to India to my family working there with babies And just keep walking…

OP; the barking dog recording really works. Try googling it? I have the real thing …

 

[minkymurph]

Feeling for you … I live in deep rural Kerry and none of these annoyances occur. Only fliers etc I get are the local supermarket maildrop and i used them in the cat;s litter trays. Anything else irrelevant goes the same way; I do not notice it really
I am sure you CAN limit mail; mailing preferences?

I am a mile down a dirt track and no one comes here like that. I gather that in cases like yours a recording of a barking dog works a treat…I have the real thing and yep!

Sure there are empty shops in our towns but I think this is the same all over and n the boom years folk overreached and then crashed?

I cannot imagine the invasive behaviour you are getting. While I have a phone, an IP model, I never leave it plugged in and my arrangement with family is that they email or I call them … ie you can achieve a great deal of privacy with thought.

Wishing you well, and that it gets to seem easier for you soon…I choose rural of course, for the peace and privacy but I think there are always adaptations you can make… I chose this method re the phone when I had a landlord who thought it was OK to call anytime he wanted…

Blessings and peace

Rosebud - I have not responded as I have just returned from holiday in the beautiful county Kerry, It wouldn’t be hard to persuade me to move there! :irish3:

 

[minkymurph]

I would never tolerate that a solicitor, for a charity or a product, ask me why I won’t contribute. When I say, “Sorry, I won’t be able to help,” I expect that to be enough–although I may have to repeat the phrase five times as they go through their script of persuasive pleas.

I’m not sure if the culture in Ireland is different about this. Here, it’s like, “Hey, you came to me asking for money–don’t demand that I explain to you how I spend my money.”

If they did, I’d lead them into an annoying discussion about how much they’re doing to protect the unborn.

I like that one as the young man who came to my door was campaigning for UNICEF.

 

[minkymurph]

So we have Junk mail to you is like getting punched in the face.

You have a poor ability to say “No thank you” and walk away so someone asking you for chairty is intolerable.

You have poor money management and it is the worlds fault if you overdraft EVEN tho in lieu of an extra overdraft you could use your CC responsibly and nit have to worry “when” money comes in.

A good chunk if your issues aren’t even tied to capitalism…

So you want to regulate the rest of the humans in existence so they can’t send you mail or knock on your door…

You sir, need to work on you.if a piece of paper destroys your existence for a day, you have serious issues.

You deduced all this from one post made on the internet by someone you have never met? Wow. What an imagination - and what a distortion of what the woman who wrote this post actually said. Your not a politician by any chance or thinking of becoming one?

 

[minkymurph]

Fundraising for charity is just another business, and the people going door to door are likely paid on commission.

Too much regulation is the reason behind most monopolies and why small businesses are struggling.

Regulations can stifle small businesses. I don’t think it’s the reason behind monopolies so much as monopolies can ride the tide more readily because they are monopolies, for example through hiring excellent lawyers.

What about regulations to assist small businesses? I often wonder if regulations introduced to allegedly protect society actually do? I the last year I have been police checked three times as I work with vulnerable people. Each check costs £200. In September I will have to be checked again as I am starting a new job. None of my previous checks have expired but because I will be working for a different organization I must be checked again. Personally I think it’s just a veiled tax.