Rapture Overboard

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philipmarus

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My younger brother attends a Baptist Private high school. He told me his required Bible class teacher, a Reverend teaches some strange things related to the Rapture.
  1. The Gospel of Luke despite what some scholars claim was written by Jew, not a Gentile. Therefore all the Books of O.T and N.T were written by Jews.
  2. After the Rapture and the tribulation, when the Jews rebuild the temple we (All of us christians) we will all become Jews.The Church age was just a temporary, remedial action of God like staying in Motel while on your way to a final destination.
I have nothing against the Jews but I find this all a bit weird. Any thoughts on this.
 
I don’t know about the Jewish role, and I’m no expert, but I’ll share my 2 cents about the “Rapture”.

My understanding is that “rapture” is a purely Protestant concept developed in the 1930’s that interprets Revelation as meaning that the end of time and final judgment will occur at the same time, and that those “saved” will be “raptured” into heaven. “Rapture” did not exist as a Christian concept before the 1930’s. When I hear Protestant ministers use the word “Rapture” on the TBN network, it is a sign to me that they lack a perspective on Christian history—but who needs Christian history to be a minister, right?

My understanding of the Catholic interpretation of Revelation is that there will be, first, the end of time; then, the final judgment; then, the Second Coming, and then, the salvation of souls into heaven (I think I have those in order). It is different from “Rapture” in that Rapture emphasizes the end of time and the final judgment all at the same time.
 
One can not become a Jew, unless one has Jewish ancestors.

This is why, I believe that it is Hasidic Jews, one can not just join them.

Jews are more than just Judaism, they are a race. This was one of the issues in the early Church, of how to handle the Gentile Christians.
 
Properly understood, the Old Testament is really about Christ. It really is, to a shocking extent. Quick sample: Genesis 3:15: “He will strike at your head…” = the cross piercing the ground at SKULL Place, get it?; “…while you strike at His heel” = the nails piercing crucified Christ’s feet.

In this context, it’s not possible to “become Jews.” Properly understood, Biblical Judaism = incipient Christianity.
 
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philipmarus:
  1. After the Rapture and the tribulation, when the Jews rebuild the temple we (All of us christians) we will all become Jews.The Church age was just a temporary, remedial action of God like staying in Motel while on your way to a final destination.
Carl Olsen covered a lot of this in his book “Will Catholics be Left Behind?” (Offhand, I don’t remember if Paul Thigpen got that deep into it in his book, “The Rapture Trap,” and I haven’t read David Currie’s book yet.)

Basically, this is a common theme in some of the fundamentalists churches that believe in the rapture. Their belief is that God did not break or supercede his original covenant with the Jews. (Catholics believe that the covenant was made “new” or “superceded,” with the passion, death, and resurrection of Christ. Everyone has a moral obligation to “kick it up a notch” to the new covenant, so to speak. )

The rapturists don’t see it that way–they think of it as two separate “promises” of God going on right now–the old covenant of the Jews, which has not yet been fulfilled (it’s “on hold”), and the new covenant of the Christian church. They believe that God will restart the old covenant in the final days, which will bring about the Rapture. The thinking behind it is that the word “church” is not found in the middle part of the book of Revelations. Supposedly that means that the “church”–(only the Bible-believing Christians, to them) must be removed from earth, removed from human time and history, i.e. “raptured away,” so that the Jewish old covenant can be restarted, the temple rebuilt, the animal sacrifices reinstituted, then the anti-christ will come to power and stop the temple sacrifices, etc. (Of course, Christ is the final sacrifice for all time, and there’s no way that “imperfect” old covenant sacrifices are ever going to resume.)

Actually, according to this theory, we Christians are “standing in the way” of these events taking place, almost like we are an unforseen mistake of some kind. If you’ve ever listened to or watched fundamentalist radio shows or tv broadcasts (I hear them while waiting for CA Live to come on), that’s why they are so gung-ho on supporting the state of Israel, politically/economically/militarily so that the temple can be rebuilt. Once that is done, the rapture will be imminent, which is their “get home free” card. The sooner the temple is rebuilt, the sooner they will be raptured.

There is absolutely nothing Scriptural about the rapture. All the verses that allegedly point to it are taken out of context (especially 1 Thess. chapter 4 -sorry forgot the verse #, around 13-17 I think). Scripture is pretty clear that when Christ comes back, it’s going to be loud, and glorious, and there won’t be any doubt to anyone–no “sneaking” around, hiding in the clouds, taking a select group of people away and leaving the rest to suffer tribulation. (After all, Jesus suffered horribly on the cross–what makes any one of us think we are entitled to better treatment? That we don’t deserve tribulation? We’re told to “pick up our cross,” not wait for a “get out of jail free” card.)

If anyone else out there can explain it better, please jump in.
 
All I knew of the Rapture was that people were supposedly going to be whisked away at some point. I must say that it sounds even more nuts now that I know more about it. It’s like somebody took a verse or two and let their imagination run wild with it.
 
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dnewbern:
I don’t know about the Jewish role, and I’m no expert, but I’ll share my 2 cents about the “Rapture”.

My understanding is that “rapture” is a purely Protestant concept developed in the 1930’s that interprets Revelation as meaning that the end of time and final judgment will occur at the same time, and that those “saved” will be “raptured” into heaven. “Rapture” did not exist as a Christian concept before the 1930’s. When I hear Protestant ministers use the word “Rapture” on the TBN network, it is a sign to me that they lack a perspective on Christian history—but who needs Christian history to be a minister, right?

My understanding of the Catholic interpretation of Revelation is that there will be, first, the end of time; then, the final judgment; then, the Second Coming, and then, the salvation of souls into heaven (I think I have those in order). It is different from “Rapture” in that Rapture emphasizes the end of time and the final judgment all at the same time.
The concept of the Rapture is actually a bit older–it goes all the way back to the 1820’s. John Nelson Darby, a clergyman who left the Anglican church to found the Plymouth Brethren, invented what is known as “dispensationalism”, the framework for interpreting “end-time prophecy” that’s used by basically all fundamentalists today. He may have gotten the “rapture” idea from a prophecy given by a teenage girl in Scotland that all Christians would be snatched away before the Tribulation. I think that’s what Catholics call a private revelation?

BTW, one can convert to Judaism without Jewish ancestors–Sammy Davis, Jr. is a well-known example.
 
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philipmarus:
My younger brother attends a Baptist Private high school. He told me his required Bible class teacher, a Reverend teaches some strange things related to the Rapture.
  1. The Gospel of Luke despite what some scholars claim was written by Jew, not a Gentile. Therefore all the Books of O.T and N.T were written by Jews.
  2. After the Rapture and the tribulation, when the Jews rebuild the temple we (All of us christians) we will all become Jews.The Church age was just a temporary, remedial action of God like staying in Motel while on your way to a final destination.
I have nothing against the Jews but I find this all a bit weird. Any thoughts on this.
The rapture doctrines originally came over from England in the Scofield reference Bible commentary. They were not believed by the NT church

That dude’s a heretic even among his own… Sure am glad I don’t follow Sola Scriptura!
Pax vobiscum,
 
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WhatMeWorry:
Carl Olsen covered a lot of this in his book “Will Catholics be Left Behind?” (Offhand, I don’t remember if Paul Thigpen got that deep into it in his book, “The Rapture Trap,” and I haven’t read David Currie’s book yet.).
I have read all three (David Currie’s book is call Rapture). Basically, all three cover the same topic from slightly different angles.

I also have a fourth book called Trial, Tribulation, and Triumph; Before, During, and After the ntichrist by Desmond A. Birch that looks like it is a more scholarly treatise on the subject. I have not gotten too far into the book (it is kind of a hard read), but he has alot of reference material in the book that the other do not cover.

PF
 
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