RCIA, 18 March 2007

[Andruschak]

Another RCIA class of Bible readings I’ve already read several times in my life. I do hope the catecumans are learning something from these weekly bible readings, because I surely am not.

There has been a slight change in future plans. Both Candidates and Catecumans are required to be at the 11 AM Mass next Sunday for the Rite Of Sending. But after that, only the Catecumans go to the Los Angeles Cathedral at 6 PM for the Rite Of Election

I, as the Candidate, go to the Los Angeles Cathedral for the Rite Of Calling at 6 PM on Sunday, 11 March

On 10 March, we have a mini-retreat for me and the Catecumans at another Church in Palos Verde, 10 AM - 4 PM

Almost forgot, the three scrutinies are 11, 18, and 25 March. I joyfully anticipate another underwhelming experience

 

[puzzleannie]

well hurrah your parish sounds like they are finally discovering the difference between catechumens and candidates. You, dear Harry, should actually be celebrating the Rite of the Call to Continuing Conversion, not rite of elecion. Scrutinies are for the unbaptized, but it would be very nice to be there for them on those days, because you, along with the rest of those present, should join in the prayers for them.

 

[Andruschak]

well hurrah your parish sounds like they are finally discovering the difference between catechumens and candidates. You, dear Harry, should actually be celebrating the Rite of the Call to Continuing Conversion, not rite of elecion. Scrutinies are for the unbaptized, but it would be very nice to be there for them on those days, because you, along with the rest of those present, should join in the prayers for them.

Correction: Scrutinies are SUPPOSED to be for the Catecumans only, and not the Candidates. But two weeks ago, before I went on retreat, the RCIA Instructor told me to study the three scriptures used for the three Masses with RCIA Scrutiny. And I am REQUIRED to attend those three Sundays anyway.

No big deal. If I got be scrutinized, fine, just so we can get this all over with.

By the way, unless it is a HUGE secret, what goes on in these Rite Of Scrutinies anyhow?

 

[desertdreamer81]

the scrutinies are essentially mini-exorcisms, prayers for protection from evil. i found it pretty powerful to listen to when i was in rcia last year, but then again, the readings were all still new to me, as was a bit of everything.

 

[puzzleannie]

the minor exorcisms are not precisely the same as the scrutinies. The scrutinies are prayers, associated by blessings, and intercessory prayer from the congregation on behalf of the Elect (as they now are called) which focus specifically on calling the Elect to focus on the interior conversion aspect which is the essential thing going on in Lent, the Period of Purification and Enlightenment. The prayers mention the gospels (Cycle A is used for RCIA regardless of the year) of the 3 sundays, Woman at the Well, Healing the blind man, raising of Lazarus.

The minor exorcisms are addional (optional) prayers asking for deliverance from all evil and evil attachments. They were intended originally, I believe, since RCIA was envisioned for mission countries, for societies where such things as devil worship or practices are common. don’t get excited folks, don’t think Emily Rose or the Exorcist, think of the end of the Our Father–that is a minor exorcism.

 

[1ke]

Wow, what a bad attitude you have.

Complaining about attending RCIA rites? Complaining about the Church’s requirements regarding attending bible study lessons in preparation for full reception into the Church?

When I went through RCIA, I was highly catechized and also had studied the bible quite a bit. But, I was thrilled to be in RCIA and went with an open heart and mind. I always got something out of the day, because I put something into the day other than a sarcastic and hard-hearted attitude which I see oozing out of your posts.

Why not practice some of the virtues… like humility, obedience…?

 

[Andruschak]

Wow, what a bad attitude you have.

Complaining about attending RCIA rites? Complaining about the Church’s requirements regarding attending bible study lessons in preparation for full reception into the Church?

When I went through RCIA, I was highly catechized and also had studied the bible quite a bit. But, I was thrilled to be in RCIA and went with an open heart and mind. I always got something out of the day, because I put something into the day other than a sarcastic and hard-hearted attitude which I see oozing out of your posts.

Why not practice some of the virtues… like humility, obedience…?

If it is obedience you want, why not start here…

catholic.com/library/How_to_Become_a_Catholic.asp

…and have Candidates Confirmed the way the Bishops wanted it to be done?

 

[1ke]

If it is obedience you want, why not start here…

catholic.com/library/How_to_Become_a_Catholic.asp

…and have Candidates Confirmed the way the Bishops wanted it to be done?

Yes, there are flawed people and flawed programs in the Church. If your pastor has designated that this is how the conversion process is to be implemented in his parish, and/or the Bishop of the diocese concurs or does not forbid it, you are still called to submit to the legitimate authority of the pastor and bishop.

Nothing that they are asking of you is immoral or against a doctrine of the Church.

And, I do find your references to an “underwhelming experience” to be quite uncalled for. All of the Rites of the Church are beautiful, whether one is a participant or observer. The Scrutinies are no exception.

The Scrutinies are meant for Catechumens, they are done in the context of the Mass.

And, that your pastor wants you there at that particular mass to witness the Scrutinies is not outlandish in the least-- I would think you would WANT to be there to witness the Scrutinies of the Catechumens and lend them your support and encouragement.

All in attendance at Mass witness the Scrutinies and take part in the liturgy with responses, holding out our hands in blessing, etc.

I really think you have a chip on your shoulder and it seems rather petty to me.

 

[catsrus]

originally posted by1ke
When I went through RCIA, I was highly catechized and also had studied the bible quite a bit. But, I was thrilled to be in RCIA and went with an open heart and mind. I always got something out of the day, because I put something into the day other than a sarcastic and hard-hearted attitude which I see oozing out of your posts.

I agree.
I spent 2 1/2 years in R.C.I.A. and went in with joy to be converting from a lifetime of protestantism.
I too was well aquainted with the Bible, and Baptized.
It was a life changeing experience that I will always cherish.
With your attitude Andruschak, you’d best spend a lot of time in prayer as to whether or not you are ready for acceptance.

 

[puzzleannie]

Wow, what a bad attitude you have.

Why not practice some of the virtues… like humility, obedience…?

with respect, as OP has shared many times before, he has responded with humility, respect and obedience to everything he has been asked to do, and has in fact gone way above and beyond in his formation, he merely points out for purposes of discussion the fact that along his journey, those in his parish directing RCIA have in fact, failed themselves in obedience to the directives of the Rites. he has also pointed out, for the edification of those of use who do direct RCIA, that it is unhelpful to candidates to prepare them for rites if you are not going to catechise on the rites, explain what they are, and what is their purpose, or if you are going to give conflicting information.

 

[Andruschak]

with respect, as OP has shared many times before, he has responded with humility, respect and obedience to everything he has been asked to do, and has in fact gone way above and beyond in his formation, he merely points out for purposes of discussion the fact that along his journey, those in his parish directing RCIA have in fact, failed themselves in obedience to the directives of the Rites. he has also pointed out, for the edification of those of use who do direct RCIA, that it is unhelpful to candidates to prepare them for rites if you are not going to catechise on the rites, explain what they are, and what is their purpose, or if you are going to give conflicting information.

What she said:thumbsup:

 

[Andruschak]

.
With your attitude Andruschak, you’d best spend a lot of time in prayer as to whether or not you are ready for acceptance.

I have done prayer, and it has led me to penitents.org

As for whether I am ready for Acceptance or not, I would think that is up the Priest. Not you, not me.

 

[jmm08]

Another RCIA class of Bible readings I’ve already read several times in my life. I do hope the catecumans are learning something from these weekly bible readings, because I surely am not.

Be open to learn because things can happen. It is possible to get new insight if you are open to it.

Example #1: I had heard the story of the prodigal son many times from my youth through adulthood (I’m now 52). Especially in my youth I saw the story from the perspective of the son who stayed at home.

Perhaps about three years ago I heard the story once again during the Gospel reading at Mass. This time, I heard the story from the perspective of the prodigal son who had returned home. And I was nearly in tears the whole time I heard the familiar words. Even though the story was familiar, something was different and I had a new perspective. I could see so much more love in the story this time. And it was so much more love than I had expected that it made me cry. It is difficult for me to accept that God loves me that much – much more than my limited understanding will ever be able to embrace.

And I recall hoping that I might not need to someday more closely see the perspective of the father (I have two young children). But God is in control.

Example #2: This is my second year in the choir. Early last year we practiced a song “Anima Christi”. Because the music was difficult and we were doing it for a special occasion, we practiced it many times for a few months. It was when we sang the song at Mass that I noticed the meaning of the words in the “Anima Christi” were quite extraordinary and very deep.

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A wise man I know (a Protestant who has been a Bible Translator for at least a few English versions) taught this. There was never much gold on the surface of the Earth where it could be easily found. Most of the gold must be dug out. And so it also is with the Bible. Most of the gold is not on the surface but can only be found with study and digging deeper.