RCIA and Bible why?

[littleone]

I was brought up on the Catechism and it wasn’t until at about 13yrs of age mum spoke some real amazing words to me. I asked her what they were and she told me they were from the “Book of proverbs” in the Bible. I asked her why we don’t read them. Mum was brought up a Presbyterian but I never saw her go to church. And yet dad was brought up a Catholic and never read the bible. I went to a catholic school and was taught the catechism but never the bible.
My question is this when we are given gifts and say my one might be to evangelize isn’t it the Holy Spirit that Jesus tells us will give us understanding of the Word and will be there with us. Jesus tells us also that it is the Holy Spirit who will speak through us.

Why is it that most of what I read about are answers from the catechism.
Are Catholics afraid of the Holy Spirit speaking through us or giving us words from the heart of God.
Wouldn’t having the Holy Spirit speak through us give us a more true relationship with God?
Wouldn’t that make us “children of God” listening to God the same way that our children are to listen to us. “Unless we become as little children” Jesus tells us!

 

[Della]

I’m sorry to hear you had so little of the Bible growing up. It was the same for me. I think many people of a certain generation had little or no real “hands-on” experience of the Bible. People were afraid to read it for fear of commiting a sacrilege–there was an overawe of things religious in many people’s minds a generation ago. Now, though, people have gone too far over the other way and think that they are capable of formulating doctrine for themselves just by picking up a Bible cold and reading it. So, the pendulum has swung too far the other way.

Of course we can read the Bible and know the guidance of the Holy Spirit. What we cannot do is determine doctrine and dogma. That Jesus left to the Apostles and their successors, our Catholic bishops in union with the pope, to do. I read a portion of the Bible every day and get much for myself out of it, but I don’t presume to make new doctrine or dogma but I do find personal guidance and help in my walk with the Lord. Everyone ought to read the Bible for that sort of guidance, absolutely!

 

[scylla]

Catholics are encouraged to read the Bible, and to pray for the Holy Spirit to guide us before hand.

I am not sure if you have any Catholic Bibles handy but the many of them will have a quote a the front encouraging us to read the Bible, in addition some include a prayer to the Holy Spirit to help guide us.

Unfortunately it is a common misconception that even many Catholics have that we shouldn’t read the Bible.
Heck many of us read it everyday, plus we read it at Mass each time we go.

I would encourage you to read the Bible, the best way and only way for it to make sense is as a Catholic.
You have so much freedom as a Catholic because you can read commentary from almost 2000 years of Christians who have read the Bible and it all makes sense.

St Jerome wrote some commentaries which are extremely insightful and I would recommend seeing if you can get them at a Catholic book store.

The reason why things are arranged in the Catechism is to make the faith easy and organized to understand\learn.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[Fidelis]

I’m sorry to hear you had so little of the Bible growing up. It was the same for me. I think many people of a certain generation had little or no real “hands-on” experience of the Bible. People were afraid to read it for fear of commiting a sacrilege–there was an overawe of things religious in many people’s minds a generation ago.

What Della says is true. Older Catholics that come to my apologetics and Bible study classes say the same thing and are always hungry to learn the Scriptures. Ironically, the Church has ALWAYS encouraged Scripture reading by Catholics. For example:

members.aol.com/johnprh/reading.html

These days there is no excuse for Catholics to be biblically illiterate. Visit my website linked below for more info:

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Littleone, I encourage you to look at this not as an ‘either-or’–you know, either the Catechism OR the Bible–but as a ‘both-and’.

Fact is, Catholics have always been encouraged to hear the Bible (reading of course not being available even to most of the elite until the printing press in the 1500s, and not to the ‘common folk’ until the great literacy movements of the 1800-1900s in the western world). As well, they have been encouraged the hear the rich resources of sacred tradition, as well as encouraged in the understanding of their faith through the 2000 years worth of teaching of scholars. . .just about all of them recognized as scholars and authorities on Christianity by non-Catholic Christians, to boot.

Apparently there was in some areas (be they parishes, dioceses, whatever) during some times as understood by either some religious or some students, an idea that ‘Catholics don’t read the Bible.’ I’m 50 and I never had heard that concept in my many years of Catholic education, but I’m perfectly open to the idea that this ‘we don’t read the Bible’ concept was around in some places, at some times. However, I do not think that it was in any way or at any time the experience of “the majority”. In fact, I’m not even that sure that we can rely that much on anecdotal incidents (no, not even mine), because we’re hearing at best secondhand, and just how sure are we that the 'student’s supposedly not being taught were (as is the case with all of us at times) simply not paying attention, or misunderstanding, or for an incredible variety of reasons thought they were taught something which in fact was not taught, or were not taught something which in fact they were?

Like most areas, the “bad news” gets more publicity than the good. We all know, or ‘have heard’ about this "Catholics not taught the Bible’ through friends or friends of friends. Seldom unless it comes out in a thread like this are we told of the hundreds of thousands of us who were taught the Bible and catechism, who did read the Bible, etc.

So I’m very glad, littleone, that you ‘came to’ the Bible.

But to assume on your assertion that “Catholics are afraid of the Holy Spirit speaking through the Bible” is balderdash.

The Holy Spirit speaks through the Bible most certainly (and most beautifully, as I know).

But that is not the only place He speaks, and an attempt to limit the Spirit to the Bible alone, and to find Catholics coming up short of listening to the Spirit because you personally heard from your Catholic father that he wasn’t taught “the Bible” and that 'on these forums Catholics mostly use the Catechism instead". . .don’t you see that that assumption of yours falls short itself, both in knowledge and in logic?

 

[Ignatius]

I went to a catholic school and was taught the catechism but never the bible. !

Blessings littleone,

Don’t worry; If you were taught the catechism, then you were taught what the bible teaches. If you went to Catholic School, then you went to Mass every day, since you did this for 13 years, you heard the complete entire Gospel over four times, since the Gospel readings repeat every three years. Rest asured, however, that you will also benefit greately from reading it privately.

Your brother in Christ.

 

[puzzleannie]

sorry for all of you who went to Catholic schools and were not given an actual bible to read, so you did not realize how much of what you learned was actually scriptural.

I went to 12 yrs of Catholic school before and after V2 and had 10 yrs of bible study and bible history, after 1st communion. Just your basic parochial school education. My parents read the bible daily at home, a habit they got from their Catholic parents.

So I am judging from my personal experience, as other posters are judging from their personal experience, and one’s subjective experience is not a valid for making global proclamations about whether or not Catholics are taught to read scripture.

So if we want to continue this discussion on a personal basis, fine, but if somebody wants to make pronouncements denouncing Catholic teaching and practice based on subjective experience, no, we have 20 dozen other threads beating that dead horse so let it die.

 

[littleone]

sorry for all of you who went to Catholic schools and were not given an actual bible to read, so you did not realize how much of what you learned was actually scriptural.

I went to 12 yrs of Catholic school before and after V2 and had 10 yrs of bible study and bible history, after 1st communion. Just your basic parochial school education. My parents read the bible daily at home, a habit they got from their Catholic parents.

So I am judging from my personal experience, as other posters are judging from their personal experience, and one’s subjective experience is not a valid for making global proclamations about whether or not Catholics are taught to read scripture.

So if we want to continue this discussion on a personal basis, fine, but if somebody wants to make pronouncements denouncing Catholic teaching and practice based on subjective experience, no, we have 20 dozen other threads beating that dead horse so let it die.

:sorry for all of you who went to Catholic schools and were not given an actual bible to read, so you did not realize how much of what you learned was actually scriptural.

2:I went to 12 yrs of Catholic school before and after V2 and had 10 yrs of bible study and bible history, after 1st communion. Just your basic parochial school education. My parents read the bible daily at home, a habit they got from their Catholic parents.

3:So I am judging from my personal experience, as other posters are judging from their personal experience, and one’s subjective experience is not a valid for making global proclamations about whether or not Catholics are taught to read scripture.

4:So if we want to continue this discussion on a personal basis, fine, but if somebody wants to make pronouncements denouncing Catholic teaching and practice based on subjective experience, no, we have 20 dozen other threads beating that dead horse so let it die.

---

1. Yes I am very sad that even though I was an alter server I was never given a bible, ever. We had a very large bible at home but it was hardly ever opened. And it was not until mum mentioned a passage from the proverbs that I actually herd anything straight from the bible. Little did I know that the bible was being opened every day at mass!
2. I used to offer myself to God every day I could. I went to a catholic boarding school and even there I had a bible but never knew much about it. I would on most days go to mass and spend much time praying in front of the tabernacle.
3. It was after an accident earlier that I firstly offered myself to God to do with what ever He desired. I used to read about the saints and wanted Jesus to do with me what ever He wanted. And yet I never knew the bible as more than a book of God that I never really understood.
4. I am not interested in beating a dead horse or any other person; I never had the bible and wondered if this is still the practice. It was after I married and in the 1970s where the charismatic empowerment by the Holy Spirit game down on us all and I was shown (in the Catholic Church) the beauty of God in His word where I could read and hear others who understand it. You are giving me some understanding of this day and age and thanks for that.

I read at mass share the bible in the fullest in the catholic readings and share with youth; I also share with people who come to me to hear my point of view about the bible and the Catholic Church. This thread is not an ear basher it is an open question and I am interested in other peoples thoughts because as I learn the more modern ways I will understand how youth relate and how the church relationships relate to what I have learned in the past.
God bless
littleone.

 

[didymus]

What Della says is true. Older Catholics that come to my apologetics and Bible study classes say the same thing and are always hungry to learn the Scriptures. Ironically, the Church has ALWAYS encouraged Scripture reading by Catholics. For example:

members.aol.com/johnprh/reading.html

These days there is no excuse for Catholics to be biblically illiterate. Visit my website linked below for more info:

ALWAYS??
Now,now, let’s not fib.
When I was a kid we learned the Catechism (or Sister’s personal views) in religion class and the Scriptures from the readings at Mass. I suspect it was much the same for may, if not most RCs of my generation.
My parents are both very devout, but I don’t recall ever seeing either of them reading the Bible (which doesn’t mean they didn’t). We did have Bibles in the house, an old DRB, an NAB “family Bible” and a Jerusalem. I suspect they got more use after my mom became a lector (at least the NAB).

I’m glad the Church is now encouraging more interest in the Scriptures but let’s not pretend iot has always been so.

 

[littleone]

ALWAYS??
Now,now, let’s not fib.
When I was a kid we learned the Catechism (or Sister’s personal views) in religion class and the Scriptures from the readings at Mass. I suspect it was much the same for may, if not most RCs of my generation.
My parents are both very devout, but I don’t recall ever seeing either of them reading the Bible (which doesn’t mean they didn’t). We did have Bibles in the house, an old DRB, an NAB “family Bible” and a Jerusalem. I suspect they got more use after my mom became a lector (at least the NAB).

I’m glad the Church is now encouraging more interest in the Scriptures but let’s not pretend iot has always been so.

Yes your point is just what I have been saying. I was on the radio this morning without my partner and although I had a married couple with me one as the technician and his wife who shared a few points, the program was made up by the prayer to the Holy Spirit my asking Him to guide me that I had come as an empty vestal (Isaiah, unless you become an empty vessel you are no more than the dung of a beast). I had come off work at 7am this morning after marrying last Saturday and starting work again last Tuesday 10pm till 7am so I had to have faith because I knew that nothing would work if I didn’t let go and let God.

We my partner in the radio and I always ask the Holy Spirit to guide us at times not knowing what He wants until the last minute when we get the information prompted us by being told something and realizing the queue, then the Holy Spirit takes over more fully.
Both of the couple told me after the program that they could never relate the way I did, as they said the clarity and continuity were both there. I am used to going forward this way and picked this way from the Bible. Jesus told the people to go out teach all nations but not to worry about the words because Jesus would send the helper.
Jesus also told us that the use of the Holy Spirit was not just for that generation but also for this one as well. I realized that Jesus was talking about us and so I take Him to the kilt and realize that He is telling me and others to have faith.
Like you we always had the very large Bible but I never saw it opened until my curiosity got the better of me and I opened it from mum telling me a proverb and I wanted to see where it came from. At primary school we always got the catechism at secondary school we were given bibles but I cannot remember ever being taught religion from it. It was always the catechism and it seemed that the reason was that the priests and religious were the ones who knew the bible.
My point is this and I think it is very valid, that there is a place for both primarily the Bible, then the catechism and the boooks of the saints and other liturature related to the church. Idon’t believe though that the catechism is the end all of catholic teaching. We can though, be prompted by the Holy Spirit from any point of valid information that God would want us to use for HIS glory alone. Whether that be learning for self, to teach others, or to refine our understanding of much reading in the Bible.
God bless
littleone

 

[Fidelis]

ALWAYS??
Now,now, let’s not fib…
I’m glad the Church is now encouraging more interest in the Scriptures but let’s not pretend iot has always been so.

Yes ALWAYS, as the link I posted indicates. I have no reason to neither fib or pretend, thank you.

As someone pointed out earlier, the Church has long offered an indulgence for devout reading of the Scriptures, and I own Catholic Bibles from the early and mid-20th century (when most of todays older Catholics were being catechized) stating just that on the first page.

As someone else pointed out, however, on a local level, catechists and priests did not carry out the Church’s clear directive in this matter. Whether it was because of ignorance, fear of Protestantizing the flock or laziness, only God knows, but this was done in spite of clear Church teaching.

Too often, older Catholics have used this as an excuse not to read the Bible. I thank God for those that I have met in classes I have taught, who don’t make excuses and realize it’s never too late.

 

[littleone]

Yes ALWAYS, As someone pointed out earlier, the Church has long offered an indulgence for devout reading of the Scriptures, and I own Catholic Bibles from the early and mid-20th century (when most of todays older Catholics were being catechized) stating just that on the first page.

As someone else pointed out, however, on a local level, catechists and priests did not carry out the Church’s clear directive in this matter. Whether it was because of ignorance, fear of Protestantizing the flock or laziness, only God knows, but this was done in spite of clear Church teaching.

Too often, older Catholics have used this as an excuse not to read the Bible. .

Fact is, Catholics have always been encouraged to hear the Bible (reading of course not being available even to most of the elite until the printing press in the 1500s, and not to the ‘common folk’ until the great literacy movements of the 1800-1900s in the western world). As well, they have been encouraged the hear the rich resources of sacred tradition, as well as encouraged in the understanding of their faith through the 2000 years worth of teaching of scholars. . .just about all of them recognized as scholars and authorities on Christianity by non-Catholic Christians, to boot.

In NZ there are and will always be I guess, those who fear the bible mainly because of little understanding of the Holy Spirit, or the fear that if they stumble over some profound knowledge or wisdom they might be punished by God. The reason being that they fear they hold some information that only priests or religious should have this information since they alone give their whole being to God.

With this point in mind I am not questioning the integrity of our faith or the church or for that matter the teachers of the church. No I am more and more realizing the truth that faith is given by God in measures that only He gives. To he who much is given much is expected, or, the parable of the sewer and the seeds, all biblical principles taught by Jesus. So it all seems to come down to there being some who need only the teaching from the, because of the amount of grace given by God, and those who need a little more from the teachings of the saints, and then there are those who need teaching from the bible other books relevant and the catechism balanced by the amount of faith they have been given.
So a final point is that is it possible to have too much info that it might hinder God’s work being done, when we are taught that the Holy Spirit gives the information as and when He decides, when we ask Him to give it to us and we are sincere of our wish to have God’s will be done.

 

[dcdurel]

I
Why is it that most of what I read about are answers from the catechism.

Scripture is primarily salvation history. The Catechism is primarily the Gospel the apostles taught and preached.

Let me explain. The Catholic Church teaches:

God has revealed himself fully by sending his own Son.
Jesus Christ “completed and perfected Revelation”2
The fact that Jesus Christ is the fullness of Revelation is the foundation for the “Christocentricity” (92) of catechesis: the mystery of Christ, in the revealed message, is not another element alongside others, it is rather the center from which all other elements are structured and illuminated.

Scripture is a witness to these teachings of the Church.
“All things have been delivered to me by my Father…” Mt 11:27
In Jesus "are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” Col 2:3
In Christ “the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily” (Col 2:9)
General Directory for Catechesis “[Jesus Christ] completed and perfected Revelation…”

Thus the entire word of God has not been revealed in the bible, but it has been given to us in Jesus, in whom are hid "all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge”

Next:

**2. Jesus taught the apostles, the leaders of the Church, “everything” and “all things” through the Holy Spirit. Nothing is left out. **

Mr 4:34 “He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything.”
John 15:15 “for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.”
John 14:26 “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.”

So we can summarize.
The Father revealed everything to Jesus, Jesus revealed everything to His apostles, and then Jesus commanded his apostles to make this known all this revelation to all men when he commanded them to “preach the Gospel”. This Gospel is “the fullness of the truth which God has enabled us to know about himself.”1
This Gospel they preached was to be “the source of all saving truth and moral discipline.”2
1Redemptoris missio,5
2Catechism of the Catholic Church 75

Now, we can search through the bible, and there is not a single chapter, nor a single paragraph the claims to be a summary of this Gospel that the apostles taught and preached. Of course a single paragraph could not contain the fullness of truth the apostles received from Jesus. The four written Gospels claim to be a narrative of the life of Jesus, but they don’t explain themselves past the basics of the moral law. They don’t claim to be an exposition of this Gospel that Jesus commanded His apostles to teach and preach. And again, since Jesus revealed EVERYTHING to His apostles, this Gospel they taught and preached is the “source of all saving truth and moral discipline”. That is why the primary duty of priets and bishops is to proclaim the Gospel.

 

[dcdurel]

So how can we know the content of this Gospel?
“"In order that the full and living Gospel might always be preserved in the Church the apostles left bishops as their successors. This living transmission, accomplished in the Holy Spirit, is called Tradition,”

What do we mean by this?
Let me give an example. Lets say the apostle John was proclaiming this Gospel, and lets say that all four written Gospels had already been written and circulated.
Lets say a pagan came up to John and said, “tell me about this Jesus of whom you are preaching”.

What would John say. How would he proclaim the Gospel?

Would John start off by reading scripture? Would he start off by reading from the Gospels? Would he read

1 "A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham:
2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,… "

Of course not.

Would he read:
“In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God…”
etc.

Of course not. The pagan would ask, Who is this God?
Then, how would John explain who God is, who the Trinity is by reading scripture? He could not.
In other words, there is no way in the world to teach about Jesus, to teach about the Father, the Holy Spirit, etc., by reading scripture.

Thus, the apostles DID NOT PROCLAIM THE GOSPEL BY READING SCRIPTURE.

Yet, this Gospel the apostles** taught** is the “source of all saving truth and moral discipline” because it contains the entire revelation of God. Now, the Church teaches that this entire Gospel is handed down in Tradition. Tradition is everything the apostles learned from Jesus and handed down that is not scripture. That is, it is everything they taught, preached, handed down in worship, (since they learned that from Jesus) and handed down by example. The apostles were doing EXACTLY as Jesus had done. Jesus taught everything to His apostles without writting a word of scripture. Jesus taught His entire Gospel by Tradition, that is, oral teaching, preaching and example.

So what exactly did the apostles teach and preach? How can we know what they taught and preached, since it is NOT written anywhere?

We can easily know what they taught and preached by learning what the early Christians in the first few centuries believed, since they claimed to learn from the apostles.
Even an atheist can learn what they believed, for these early Christians left their writings. And the truth is that the early Christians were all Catholic. They worshipped at the mass, they all went to confession, communion, they were baptized, confirmed, married in the Church. Their bishops were ordained by the apostles, their priests were the “presbyters” of the bible, who carried on the worship the apostles handed down. All these Christians claimed their beliefs came from the apostles.

**In other words, the Gospel the apostles taught and preached was the Catholic faith. **

The Catechism is a summary of this Gospel, applied to todays world.

 

[dcdurel]

Thus the Catechism proclaims the living Gospel handed down in Tradition. There are no teachings in scripture that are not already found in the Catholic faith, handed down in Tradition. Scripture contains salvation history. Scripture has some of the teachings handed down in Tradition. Scripture also contains something the Catechism does not contain. It presents the life and example of Jesus himself. Thus, to know how Jesus lived and acted, we must know scripture. “Not to know scripture is not to know Christ”. And we must take Jesus as our example.

We also use scripture as a witness to the teachings of the Catholic faith, and we use scripture to noursh and illuminated the teachings of the Catholic faith.
For example, the Catechism can teach about hell more precisely and exactly than in scripture, but it really sinks in better when you read the words of Jesus in Matthew 25 and in Revelations and and other places where it talks about hell. So the Catchism teaches fully and precisely, but scripture helps us remember it better and take it in better. Or as the Church teaches, scripture “nourishes” and “illuminates” the teachings.

So, in summary, the Catholic faith is simply the Gospel the apostles taught and preached as guided by the Holy Spirit. That part of the Gospel that is written,(Scripture) is salvation history, inspired by the Holy Spirit. Jesus founded a Church to teach both, and both make up the entire Gospel.

The only thing missing is that the Catechism assumes that we have already been taught the initial proclamation of the Gospel. And we have not. We cannot teach ourselves all the Gospel. We have not been clearly taught the initial proclamation, We must learn from the Church. Jesus made Peter first in authority and his successors, the Popes, continue that succession. Thus, to learn the Gospel properly in the correct progression, we must go through the teaching authority Jesus set up. And that means to go to the Popes. Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II realized that Catholics were ignorant of the intial proclamation of the Gospel. Pope Paul VI wrote “Evangalization in the Modern World” and Pope John Paul II wrote “Mission of the Redeemer” and much more, to teach Catholics the basics again.

I will summarize the best I can what they taught, for I am still learning this part. But basically the intitial proclamation is that God so loved the world that He sent His Son Jesus out of love to suffer and die out of love liberate us from the slavery and misery of our sins, during our lifetime, now, today. This is the primary meaning of salvation. Salvation is the center and kernal of the Gospel. The whole Gospel, the whole Catholic faith takes salvation as the central point. Sin causes all the moral evil in the world and until Jesus came even those with good intentions were slaves to sin. By His death and resurrection, out of love, Jesus merited the grace to free us from our sins. We receive this grace from the sacraments, especially the Eucharist. Without this grace we become slaves to sin.
Thus, the Catechism teaches that the Eucharist continues the work of salvation. That is, it continues to be the source of Grace that frees us from the slavery of sin. From experiance and from Church teaching, I can assure you, that once on Sunday is NOT enough. Sunday is only the minimum. Through the frequent, even daily, reception of the Eucharist we can be freed from sins that cause misery in our lives and that separate us from Jesus, that is, mortal sins. This is the primary meaning of salvation. This is why Jesus is called our Savior. He saves, frees, liberates us NOW from the slavery of sin. This is what the Church teaches through the Popes. Salvation is not something ONLY in the future when we die, it starts NOW in this life, the moment we are baptized and primarly through the Eucharist. That is why St. Paul says, “for by grace you have been saved through faith”. We are freed from the slavery of sin, saved from the misery of sin NOW, if we ask for this grace in the Eucharist. “You have been saved”, he writes, not you WILL be saved. We will be saved only if we continue to live in this freedom by grace. Grace make it possible to be free from sin, it does not force us.

Thus, God is love. He sent His son Jesus out of love for us, to free us from our miserable condition of being slaves to sin, slaves to worry, slaves to evil. This is the center of the Gospel. This is the Good News. This is the Catholic faith.
The bible is the story of salvation history. The Catholic faith we learned is the Gospel the apostles learned from Jesus and handed down. Through this faith we learn the truth about God, we obtain grace to free us from our sins, we learn the commandments to learn how to live a life free from the misery of sin, we learn how to pray and how to ask for this grace through the sacraments, and this reconciliation with God, made possible by being freed from our sins will continue on to the next life so we can be in union with God forever in heaven. If we choose.

 

[littleone]

Scripture is primarily salvation history. The Catechism is primarily the Gospel the apostles taught and preached.

Let me explain. The Catholic Church teaches:

I have no problem to any of this. It is a while since I visited this thread and I have realised that there are many who feep primarily on the Bible, those who feed on the Boble, and the ctchism , and those again who need both and much more. This study all for the glory of God. Keep up your good works
Amen
God bless
littleone

 

[dcdurel]

It is a while since I visited this thread and I have realised that there are many who feep primarily on the Bible, those who feed on the Boble, and the ctchism , and those again who need both and much more. This study all for the glory of God. Keep up your good works
Amen
God bless
littleone

It is good that some feed primarily on the bible and others on the Catechism. But, if we really want to follow Jesus, we should submit to His directions. And He did found a Church and give authority to that Church to teach and preach the Gospel. Jesus said that salvation comes through believing the Gospel that the leaders of His Church would teach and preach (Mark 16:16) “Preach the Gospel to all nations, he who
believes and is baptized will be saved”

Thus, according to Jesus, salvation comes from believing the Gospel that His Church teaches and preaches. Jesus made the Popes are first in authority in this Church. They teach that the Gospel is roughly divided into two parts, first the initial proclamation and second catechesis, or teaching doctrine with the view of initiation Chrisitians into the fullness of the faith.
I gave a summary of this on my previous notes.
Bible reading comes in as a part of Catechesis, it is the part of Salvation History.

Catechesis is dividing into teaching the Trinity, Salvation History, teaching the Creed, the Sacraments, the Commandments and Prayer.

In other words, when a non-Christians is taught about Jesus and why He came, etc, then if he is still interested in learning more, then proclamation of the Gospel proceeds to Catechesis. First the Trinity must be taught. This is rather obvious.
Next Salvation history is taught. This is where we go directly to the bible. The bible presents salvation History. We also go to the bible to learn about the person of Jesus, how He acted, responded, taught, loved, etc. Because we are supposed to take Jesus as our example. We can even learn some basic moral teachings from reading the Gospels. But, to learn the Gospel that He spent 3 years teaching the apostles, and which contains EVERYTHING regarding salvation, then the only way we can learn this Gospel, is the way Jesus said we are to learn it. And that is from His Church.
Once we learn the Catholic faith, which is the Gospel that the apostles taught and preached, by obeying Jesus and learning from His Church, then when we read scripture, we can see these teachings in practice. Scripture will then illuminate the teachings. Scripture will become a witness to the teachings.

There is only one way to learn the Gospel.  Learn it from the Church, then use scripture to illuminate the teachings.
There is a tradition of men, started by Luther and Calvin, which says Jesus is wrong when He said to listen to His Church.   This  tradition of men says we must reject the Gospel His Church teaches and preaches and instead, we must each make up our own Gospel based on our private interpretation of scripture.

Good and holy people (protestants) have been trying this method for over 500 years and they can’t even get the teachings on the Eucharist right. They have no idea how we receive the grace of salvation (primarily through the Eucharist) and they don’t even know how to conduct a worship service, since that is not taught anywhere in the bible. They don’t even know the primary meaning of salvation. It is not because they are evil or bad. It is simply because they have been misled by Luther and Calvin into rejecting the only method Jesus taught. And the only method Jesus taught was that we must learn the Gospel through His Church.

 

[littleone]

There is only one way to learn the Gospel.
Yes there is, and it is in the power of the Holy Spirit, so that He gives us true understanding of how the Father wants us to understand. It is all for His glory.
Where does YOUR listening to the HOLY SPIRIT come on, you haven’t mentioned it yet?
Learn it from the Church, and then use scripture to illuminate the teachings.
If I want a relationship with Jesus do I get it from the church =the church is those in the collective body fellowshipping in the Catholic family.
In your bible Jesus tells us to invite the Holy Spirit and He will come in, Jesus left this earth so that He could send the “helper” the one who would teach us all things pertaining to salvation, but NOT only that, but also to those who may be granted wisdom, different gifts, for the purpose of serving God then He would give them.

Good and holy people (protestants) have been trying this method for over 500 years and they can’t even get the teachings on the Eucharist right. They have no idea how we receive the grace of salvation (primarily through the Eucharist) and they don’t even know how to conduct a worship service, since that is not taught anywhere in the bible. They don’t even know the primary meaning of salvation. It is not because they are evil or bad. It is simply because they have been misled by Luther and Calvin into rejecting the only method Jesus taught. And the only method Jesus taught was that we must learn the Gospel through His Church. (church is people).

Your statement seems to be falsified through generalizations, I am sorry to say. If there is one person in the protestant church congregation who believes in Jesus Christ and accepts the baptism of the Holy Spirit and for the sake of Jesus Christ follows Jesus example to the kilt of feeding healing housing those in need and all for the love of Jesus Christ then I think you are generalizing.
I realize that this is not a teaching lesson so I will believe that you didn’t mean it this way?

I am sure that Jesus tells you and I in your and my bible that it is through the Holy Spirit that we are taught. The spirit that teaches ALL truth, is this not right?

We also go to the bible to learn about the person of Jesus, how He acted, responded, taught, loved, etc. Because we are supposed to take Jesus as our example.
Not, etc, but how if we have faith the size of a mustard seed we can in the name of Jesus Christ, move mountains in which ever way, feed those in need, heal the sick, visit the imprisoned and more.

We can even learn some basic moral teachings from reading the Gospels.
Why do you say some basic moral teachings, we are not talking about humanistic approaches to the spirit of God but the TRUTH. The WHOLE TRUTH and NOTHING but the TRUTH. which is given to He who accepts Jesus Christ as their savior, and accepts the Spirit of God. There is NO room for minimizing any of God’s word. It is all or nothing and you and I both know that it is ALL.
It only seems basic when one learns through teaching that is another’s point of view, and hence does not hold the spirit of God in it.
I guess that you would also expect that before starting a learning sesson or reading you would expect the person (s) to have prayed inviting the Holy Spirit to come in to teach us the truth.
Have you not read that what the Spirit teaches one person will be heard differently from every person depending on where the spirit of God is in them at that particular time?

But, to learn the Gospel that He spent 3 years teaching the apostles, and which contains EVERYTHING regarding salvation, then the only way we can learn this Gospel, is the way Jesus said we are to learn it.
And that is from His Church.
If this is correct, then why did Jesus tell you and I in your and my bible, ALL truth will be revealed to he who asks, seeking wisdom first which is the first sign of fear of God.
Another point, what if a person has learned the bile for 25 years and works out in the fields with the poor, the sick, the imprisoned, the infirmed, those under bridges, those with no food no, clothing, no friends, and carry on. All in the name of Jesus Christ, and I learned this from having read the bible for 20 years. If I then enter the Catholic Church, or if I am part of the Catholic Church what am I doing that is not in the bible or the catechism that I am doing. What Jesus tells us to do to gain the Kingdome of God, is surely what I have been doing?

God bless
littleone

 

[littleone]

This is an added part of the first one.

Once we learn the Catholic faith, which is the Gospel that the apostles taught and preached, by obeying Jesus and learning from His Church, then when we read scripture, we can see these teachings in practice.
we can see these teachings in practice. Are we not to do, yes to “do what I have done” as Jesus tells us to do, Not just to see.
A point here, why are there gifts of the Holy Spirit, are they no to be asked for, used, for God’s glory? The whole plan of God for us surely goes much further than seeing, hearing, and praying doesn’t it go into doing, becoming empowered to serve God the way Jesus taught us.
For those who the spirit is given to “go out teach all nations when you are there the spirit will give you utterance”
For those who the spirit gives some will touch a sick person and they will be healed
And others, I am sure you know the readings of Galatians, Corinthians, etc.

Scripture will then illuminate the teachings. Scripture will become a witness to the teachings. For the hearer to follow and do likewise as Jesus has done. As Jesus tells us “For you will do much more than I have done, and it is all for the glory of our Father in heaven”.

Remember that Jesus tells us that one part of the body is not to be discarded because it is not like another, so those with more faith than others should be respected accordingly. For instance if one person is used as a prophet and another with the gifts of healing, another with the gift of miracles are we to discard them?
The Spirit rests upon who He desires, gives to who He wishes the gift that suits our Father in Heaven.
Lastly I guess you meen that to start the learning, session or other that we would start with a prayer to invite the Holy Spirit to have a place in the teaching since it is HE is in charge when invited.
I for one desire to be little because that is the position the Spirit has given me.

I am Catholic and will always be and I love Jesus the Trinity, the Father, Mary the saints and will never leave.
I believe though that the love of God takes one deeper into the heart of God than you have portraid here. enlighten me!

God bless
littleone