RCIA class concerns/questions

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oneseeker2

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A couple of weeks ago in our RCIA class, a deacon was covering for the regular teacher. It was very interesting, but a little confusing. He brought up a number of things the Church does, and said they were things borrowed from pagans.
venerating relics
clergy/laity distinction
vestments
incense
genuflection
special cups, bowls, etc for Eucharist
holidays

If this is the case, then I don’t know if I should join. How do I know this is the church Jesus intended if so much has been added or borrowed? :confused: Why is there such a clergy/laity divide when there wasn’t one in the beginning? Everyone just met together and broke bread together.

oneseeker2
 
Borrowed from pagans or not, they’re all also in the bible, which is what is most important.
 
A couple of weeks ago in our RCIA class, a deacon was covering for the regular teacher. It was very interesting, but a little confusing. He brought up a number of things the Church does, and said they were things borrowed from pagans.
venerating relics
clergy/laity distinction
vestments
incense
genuflection
special cups, bowls, etc for Eucharist
holidays

If this is the case, then I don’t know if I should join. How do I know this is the church Jesus intended if so much has been added or borrowed? :confused: Why is there such a clergy/laity divide when there wasn’t one in the beginning? Everyone just met together and broke bread together.

oneseeker2
Part of me thinks that maybe you misheard him. He could have said that “some people THINK these things are borrowed”. Or he really could have said that. Either way, the point is that just because there are similarities between Catholicism and these other pagan religions does NOT mean that they were taken/borrowed from them. We believe in a supreme being…the pagans believed in a supreme being(s), does that mean that our belief was borrowed from them? No.

It simply means that there are certain things that are a universal, such as men and women who dedicate their life to the being they serve (priesthood, OT), special clothing that must be worn during the worship (vestments DEFINITELY in the OT. Read about what Aaron was to wear), holy days (seen in the OT), special plates and cups (OT), bowing down (seen in all forms of religion, seen in the OT).

Simply put, similarities do NOT mean that Catholicism is false, pagan, whatever you might call it.
 
As far as I know, all those things you mentioned are straight out of the Bible. Every one of those things were practiced by the Jews. It’s not pagan. And you know what? So what if it was pagan? Do you think God loved the pagans less than the rest of us? God sent Jesus to die for those pagans. Some make a big deal about the pagan origins of the Christmas tree. Who cares? It doesn’t matter what it was, it only matters what it is now. The story of the Christmas tree is a great example of the triumph of Christianity over the pagan world. Every Christian has pagan ancestors. If we were judged on our past, we would never achieve heaven. Pagans aren’t horrible people. They’re just people who haven’t met Jesus yet! :). But as to that list in your post, all of it is in the Bible. Don’t worry about it. Some RCIA teachers are really bad, unfortunately. I’m in RCIA now and it’s not nearly as edifying as I had hoped.
 
As other posters have said –

The items you mention are also mentioned in the Bible and are also part of the universal experience of mankind and religious practices.

RCIA instructors, like other teachers, come in various degrees of articulation and clarity.

Now, some questions for you:

Why did you not speak up about your concerns or questions at the class?
Have you made an appointment with deacon to speak to him about your questions and ask for clarification? (we were not there, so only he can give you an answer as to what he meant)
What does this list bother you so much?
 
As other posters have said –

The items you mention are also mentioned in the Bible and are also part of the universal experience of mankind and religious practices.

RCIA instructors, like other teachers, come in various degrees of articulation and clarity.

Now, some questions for you:

Why did you not speak up about your concerns or questions at the class?
Have you made an appointment with deacon to speak to him about your questions and ask for clarification? (we were not there, so only he can give you an answer as to what he meant)
What does this list bother you so much?
I didn’t speak up because this happened towards the end of class and there wasn’t time. I haven’t made an appointment b/c he sits in on most classes so I can just catch him there most likely. I’m also shy about speaking up in class. The list bothers me b/c I am looking for the true church. If the church has borrowed from pagans and changed what Jesus wanted for His church in the beginning, then that would bother me. That’s what I’m trying to discern. BTW, I don’t like feeling lectured about what I did wrong when I come looking for answers. That happens every time I post on Catholic Answers, and I’m about to give up coming here.

oneseeker2

oneseeker2
 
A couple of weeks ago in our RCIA class, a deacon was covering for the regular teacher. It was very interesting, but a little confusing. He brought up a number of things the Church does, and said they were things borrowed from pagans.
venerating relics
clergy/laity distinction
vestments
incense
genuflection
special cups, bowls, etc for Eucharist
holidays

If this is the case, then I don’t know if I should join. How do I know this is the church Jesus intended if so much has been added or borrowed? :confused: Why is there such a clergy/laity divide when there wasn’t one in the beginning? Everyone just met together and broke bread together.

oneseeker2
Most of these can be found in the Book of Exodus, look at 23:14 (holidays), Chapter 28 (vestments), chapter 30 (incense), chapter 29 (ordination of priests), chapter 25:29-30 (special cups, bowls etc.), The Book of Revelation 4: 9-10 (genuflecting, prostrating, falling to the ground), 2Kings 13: 20-21 (Relics - Elijah’s bones revive a man)
 
Most of these can be found in the Book of Exodus, look at 23:14 (holidays), Chapter 28 (vestments), chapter 30 (incense), chapter 29 (ordination of priests), chapter 25:29-30 (special cups, bowls etc.), The Book of Revelation 4: 9-10 (genuflecting, prostrating, falling to the ground), 2Kings 13: 20-21 (Relics -** Elijah’s bones** revive a man)
Correction: it was** Elisha’s** bones not Elijah’s bones.
 
I didn’t speak up because this happened towards the end of class and there wasn’t time. I haven’t made an appointment b/c he sits in on most classes so I can just catch him there most likely. I’m also shy about speaking up in class. The list bothers me b/c I am looking for the true church. If the church has borrowed from pagans and changed what Jesus wanted for His church in the beginning, then that would bother me. That’s what I’m trying to discern. BTW, I don’t like feeling lectured about what I did wrong when I come looking for answers. That happens every time I post on Catholic Answers, and I’m about to give up coming here.

oneseeker2

oneseeker2
With all the Christian charity I can muster…

*you *came to an internet forum where anyone can respond to find out theanswers and clarification of something that was said in a room by an individual in *that room *instead of asking *the person in the room *either at the time or later. None of were there and none of us heard exactly what the deacon said or the context it was said so we CANNOT give an exact answer. As others have said, they may or may not be a misunderstanding and miscommunication on both parts.

The best clarification for you and opportunity to followup is with the deacon. Whether you think that is lecturing to you or not, so be it.
 
With all the Christian charity I can muster…

*you *came to an internet forum where anyone can respond to find out theanswers and clarification of something that was said in a room by an individual in *that room *instead of asking *the person in the room *either at the time or later. None of were there and none of us heard exactly what the deacon said or the context it was said so we CANNOT give an exact answer. As others have said, they may or may not be a misunderstanding and miscommunication on both parts.

The best clarification for you and opportunity to followup is with the deacon. Whether you think that is lecturing to you or not, so be it.
I already clearly explained my reasons for not speaking up at that particular moment. I also thought that hearing from others on this might be enlightening. It’s not that people said I should speak to the deacon himself that bothered me, because I plan to do so tomorrow. It was the tone of “well, why are you asking us? why didn’t you speak up right that moment? why do you care if much of what we do is borrowed from pagans?” that bothered me.

BTW, if that all the christian charity you can muster, than perhaps I don’t need to hear from you.

oneseeker2
 
A couple of weeks ago in our RCIA class, a deacon was covering for the regular teacher. It was very interesting, but a little confusing. He brought up a number of things the Church does, and said they were things borrowed from pagans.
venerating relics
clergy/laity distinction
vestments
incense
genuflection
special cups, bowls, etc for Eucharist
holidays

If this is the case, then I don’t know if I should join. How do I know this is the church Jesus intended if so much has been added or borrowed? :confused: Why is there such a clergy/laity divide when there wasn’t one in the beginning? Everyone just met together and broke bread together.

oneseeker2
I’m in the middle of my RCIA class and I would highly recommend “Catholicism for Dummies” as a supplement. This book is awesome and it will answer a lot of questions.
 
A couple of weeks ago in our RCIA class, a deacon was covering for the regular teacher. It was very interesting, but a little confusing. He brought up a number of things the Church does, and said they were things borrowed from pagans.
venerating relics
clergy/laity distinction
vestments
incense
genuflection
special cups, bowls, etc for Eucharist
holidays

If this is the case, then I don’t know if I should join. How do I know this is the church Jesus intended if so much has been added or borrowed? :confused: Why is there such a clergy/laity divide when there wasn’t one in the beginning? Everyone just met together and broke bread together.

oneseeker2
Over two thousand years, developing globally across a myriad of cultures and traditions, it ought not be suprising that there are a wide range of eclectic practices that have come about.

Vatican II reintroduces the idea that the divide between laity and clergy need not be a chasm at any rate. The priesthood of believer is still very much a part of what Christianity is.
The Bible itself gives an idea of why the informal Agape or Eucharistic Love Feast fell out of favor. The richest and the most influential were getting the lions share of the food and the wine, with the poor waifs often leaving with nothing at all. What developed was more formal, more equitable, but unfortunately lends itself more to symbolism and metaphorical understanding that the more earthy understanding of sharing an actual meal of Christ himself.
Christianity is a very sacramental relgion though, and Catholicism brings this out very richly indeed. It is all about bringing Christ into this world, as it exists for us today. The elements of this world, be they food, or water or wine, of the sexual relations we have, are sacramentalized and validated through the faith, so it should not be a surprise that the elements of the culture as they exist and have existed are offered up to the Lord as our gift to him.

Holidays of old become holidays dressed up in Christian garbs of remembrance to the reason for the season for sure.

Many of the traditions and practices for all intents and purposes stop having meaning for many Catholics centuries removed from the time when relics and the like were more profound to the lives of the people of those times.

For some there is continuing reverence, for others it is all quaint, and for others still we are all part of the practice, and our voices matter to in protesting against practices that offend our own cultural standards and sensibilities. That must be part of the faith too. Every part of the body of Christ is essential and has a right to be heard.

Conversely, as we bring our faith into our modern situations, different elements unique to our own culture become sacramentalized as well now, in a thousand and one different ways.
The whole point of the Incarnation was to make God real in our own lives, as we are living them now. Formal cups, and kneeling and signs of respect and reverence are the ways that we establish a relationship with the Most High in a way that everybody from everywhere can understand that it is our loving Creator who we are dealing with.
 
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