RCIA frustration

[here_i_stand]

I was hoping someone could help me with a problem I’ve been having. I am Lutheran, but am dating a Catholic - something which has led me over the past two years to learn more about the Catholic faith and into a local RCIA program. I have learned much from sources such as this board, EWTN, catholic.com and from reading the early church fathers. I am well-versed in Scripture (although I can’t compare to some of the well-learned people that post here). I started taking RCIA just to learn more and am dismayed by what I’m hearing there. There is such a lack of knowledge about not only the Catholic faith, but about Christianity in general. One of our leaders actually said that confession is not that important and that missing Mass once in awhile isn’t viewed as a big thing anymore (since Vatican II). I know from reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church that this is not true. She also stated that she is glad that a friend of hers - who is going through a divorce - isn’t Catholic so she doesn’t have that “extra burden” of having to obtain an annullment. These views seem to be held by the entire RCIA team. To make a long story short, I am not learning anything and - if anything - feel myself being led away from the Church. The Lutheran church I attend is much more conservative and the pastor is the only one who instructs those wanting to learn more about our faith. Why is that not the case in Catholicism? It seems to do a great disservice to those of us who genuinely want to learn more. I know the people don’t make the church, but how do I handle this?

 

[jmcrae]

I know the people don’t make the church, but how do I handle this?

Pray for them, and after you become Catholic, volunteer to help out with RCIA. Be a sponsor in the first year, to get a sense of how it looks from “the other side” and then jump in with both feet in the second year.

At our RCIA we are always looking for well-catechized RCIA catechists.

Meanwhile, keep on doing personal research on the 'net and at the library, ask questions in class (like, “Hey, I was reading in the Catechism that it is a mortal sin to miss Mass on Sunday - which document of Vatican II is it that says it’s not really a mortal sin anymore?” ) and meet with your priest frequently to keep him updated on your progress.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

… I started taking RCIA just to learn more and am dismayed by what I’m hearing there.

Sadly, this sounds very familiar. My wife attended RCIA the first time to learn more about Catholicism. In one such meeting, a Jewish spouse of a Catholic asked the priest a question: “What about the salvation of non-Catholics?” The priest said, “Non-Catholics are none of my concern.” That was the last session we attended until we moved–years later–to another parish. She would learn nothing authentically Catholic from that particular priest, who ended up getting arrested for a DUI later that year.

There is such a lack of knowledge about not only the Catholic faith, but about Christianity in general. One of our leaders actually said that confession is not that important and that missing Mass once in awhile isn’t viewed as a big thing anymore (since Vatican II). I know from reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church that this is not true. She also stated that she is glad that a friend of hers - who is going through a divorce - isn’t Catholic so she doesn’t have that “extra burden” of having to obtain an annullment. These views seem to be held by the entire RCIA team. To make a long story short, I am not learning anything and - if anything - feel myself being led away from the Church.

I would stop going. I would also write a letter to the pastor explaining why. Then I would learn the Catholic faith from faithful sources, such as the following…

The Knights of Columbus offers online Catechism classes for free. Online Courses (Includes chapter tests and instant scoring):

• [The Luke E. Hart Series Course (http://www.kofc.org/un/publications/cis/courses/HARTCOURSES/index.cfm)
• [The Faith Formation Course (http://www.kofc.org/un/publications/cis/courses/CISCOURSES/index.cfm)
  If you want to review the KofC course material, you can download them in PDF format, here:

Luke E. Hart Series Course materials
The Veritas Series Course materials

See also…

[Catholic Home Study Service (http://www.amm.org/chss.htm)
led by Father Oscar Lukefahr, C.M

They offer seven free courses. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

The Lutheran church I attend is much more conservative and the pastor is the only one who instructs those wanting to learn more about our faith. Why is that not the case in Catholicism?

I dunno. We have a large parish (6000) and it might not be feasible for the pastor to teach at this weekly RCIA gathering. However, I think it could be done, if he made it a priority.

I pray our pastors come to understand that, as St. Pius X asserted, there is a great loss of souls due to a failure to properly teach Christian doctrine.

See here: St. Pius X’s encyclical on Teaching Christian Doctrine ([Acerbo Nimis (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/p...ents/hf_p-x_enc_15041905_acerbo-nimis_en.html), 1905)

Here are some excerpts…

…the chief cause of the present indifference and, as it were, infirmity of soul, and the serious evils that result from it, is to be found above all in ignorance of things divine…

We must now consider upon whom rests the obligation to dissipate this most pernicious ignorance and to impart in its stead the knowledge that is wholly indispensable. There can be no doubt, Venerable Brethren, that this most important duty rests upon all who are pastors of souls. On them, by command of Christ, rest the obligations of knowing and of feeding the flocks committed to their care; and to feed implies, first of all, to teach. “I will give you pastors according to my own heart,” God promised through Jeremias, “and they shall feed you with knowledge and doctrine.” [Jer. 3: 15] Hence the Apostle Paul said: “Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel,”* thereby indicating that the first duty of all those who are entrusted in any way with the government of the Church is to instruct the faithful in the things of God*.

 

[Nordar]

I am really sorry to hear that, please don’t give up you know that what they are teaching is wrong. We need people like you who can make others aware they are being taught wrong. If it means like the other poster said Teaching an RCIA class yourself in the future.

 

[Andruschak]

. To make a long story short, I am not learning anything and - if anything - feel myself being led away from the Church.

Same here, see my postings in the spirituality forum. The current way that RCIA is implamented is mostly…uh, don’t want to upset the moderators.

For me, I strongly suggest

catechismclass.com

and their RCIA/Adult Education course.

You will learn from this Lectionary-driven, catechism-based program what the true teachings of the Church are

 

[Sixtus]

So far as I knew, I thought that all RCIA programmes were lead by the PP. If you receive a service which is less than you expect, does not answer your questions, leaves you with doubts, or if there are any other areas about which you are not happy,

COMPLAIN TO THE LOCAL PP. IF STILL UNHAPPY COMPLAIN TO THE BISHOP:thumbsup:

 

[exoflare]

I’m one of the team members at RCIA here right now, and I can relate. One person (who shall remain nameless) was up on stage and told everyone that faith was defined as “believing something without any basis for it”. :nope:

 

[cestusdei]

here, I had the same problem when I joined. I knew more then the teachers and could tell when they were simply wrong. They were nice, but badly catechized themselves. You are on the right track. Keep it up and someday you will be teaching RCIA. That will be great for the Church. We need you.

 

[christianley]

I was hoping someone could help me with a problem I’ve been having. I am Lutheran, but am dating a Catholic - something which has led me over the past two years to learn more about the Catholic faith and into a local RCIA program. I have learned much from sources such as this board, EWTN, catholic.com and from reading the early church fathers. I am well-versed in Scripture (although I can’t compare to some of the well-learned people that post here). I started taking RCIA just to learn more and am dismayed by what I’m hearing there. There is such a lack of knowledge about not only the Catholic faith, but about Christianity in general. One of our leaders actually said that confession is not that important and that missing Mass once in awhile isn’t viewed as a big thing anymore (since Vatican II). I know from reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church that this is not true. She also stated that she is glad that a friend of hers - who is going through a divorce - isn’t Catholic so she doesn’t have that “extra burden” of having to obtain an annullment. These views seem to be held by the entire RCIA team. To make a long story short, I am not learning anything and - if anything - feel myself being led away from the Church. The Lutheran church I attend is much more conservative and the pastor is the only one who instructs those wanting to learn more about our faith. Why is that not the case in Catholicism? It seems to do a great disservice to those of us who genuinely want to learn more. I know the people don’t make the church, but how do I handle this?

My RCIA was totally different. We had the two priests in the parish doing all of the teaching and it was all very orthodox. Is it possible you could find another parish with a better program? There must be a conservative parish in your area somewhere. In my area the people are voting with their feet – our conservative parish has doubled in membership over the past 15 years.

 

[sterryfamily]

It’s a shame, really, but a direct result of under-catechesis (is that a word?) since V2. It is not uncommon for RCIA (and other catechism classes) to be handled by an all-volunteer army of uncatechized, nominal Catholics.

I do see a change happening, but it will take a lot of time to be effective universally. This is why people like YOU are needed.

We all need to get involved as much as possible. We are The Body of Christ and it will only change when we decide it will.

 

[here_i_stand]

Thank you all for your kind replies and resources. You were all a big help.

The parish priest will be talking to our group tonight, so perhaps I can talk to him after the class. I know God uses all of these situations for our spiritual development - maybe I should see this as an opportunity rather than a frustration, while studying further on my own. Otherwise, there are other parishes in my area. I can look into what they do for their RCIA curriculum.

In any event, you have helped me see this in a different light. Thanks and God bless!

 

[Maxply]

I think there’ll always be people around churches who don’t fully understand the faith, for any number of reasons, personal limitations, etc.

It’s important to go to mass. I’m no zealot, but you might even consider daily mass; if you do this regularly, it’s an amazing, great, postive experience. And don’t neglect confession either; once a month and you’ll really be up on your personal holiness and spirituality, e.g., how to do a better job of it all.

I think some element of the situation you’re in is caused by “the times” we are in, and many Catholics are embarrassed at being Catholic, since the Church doesn’t follow Hollywood moral prescriptions. A Catholic might be a bit chagrined at the Church’s teachings or requirements, and might want to throw in ways of watering it down, such as “you don’t really have to go to mass each week,” or “confession isn’t that important.” It’s a sad way of trying to keep up with the Joneses.

 

[VociMike]

It’s a shame, really, but a direct result of under-catechesis (is that a word?) since V2. It is not uncommon for RCIA (and other catechism classes) to be handled by an all-volunteer army of uncatechized, nominal Catholics.

But, not coincidentally, I get the feeling that everybody who is poorly catechised is poorly catechised in the same way. They always seem to err in the direction of “hey, it’s no big deal!” Often they actually seem to be apologizing for the Caholic faith they have offered to teach.

I do see a change happening, but it will take a lot of time to be effective universally. This is why people like YOU are needed.

We all need to get involved as much as possible. We are The Body of Christ and it will only change when we decide it will.

Exactly so.

 

[mo3]

In any event, you have helped me see this in a different light. Thanks and God bless!

I will pray for you. You can be a wonderful example for all of us. Converts are sometimes better Catholics than those born into the faith.

 

[tundramom]

But, not coincidentally, I get the feeling that everybody who is poorly catechised is poorly catechised in the same way. They always seem to err in the direction of “hey, it’s no big deal!” Often they actually seem to be apologizing for the Caholic faith they have offered to teach.

AMEN! My 17 year old daughter is going through RCIA and I am her sponsor. At one point the man who was teaching “the history of the church” veered off into women should be priests and priests should be allowed to marry. He also made the comment about 70AD as being when the real scriptures were lost and that so many of the books that should be in the Canon were lost. (not to mention that he made the comment that the Temple was rebuilt after that destruction) HELLOOOOOOOOO :banghead:

 

[here_i_stand]

I will pray for you. You can be a wonderful example for all of us. Converts are sometimes better Catholics than those born into the faith.

Thank you. As of right now, I’m still discerning whether or not to become Catholic. I appreciate your prayers.

 

[scylla]

I attended RCIA last night and it was horrible.

This doesn’t make the Catholic faith wrong, just that there are plenty of people who teach RCIA who aren’t teaching Catholicism.

Catholicism at it’s core is a submission to God’s will, therefore putting Him first in your life, worshipping Him, following His revealed truth and reflecting that by our behaviour.

This unites Catholicism into a cohesive understanding which is makes it all interrelated.

As an example,
God is our creator, so our worship should be centered on Him, so it doesn’t matter if you have a ballgame to watch you go to Church to honor our creator.
Now saying it is ok to go to the ballgame breaks that understanding.

So when someone at RCIA starts teaching differently then you can tell they watering it down or just have a bad understanding. This doesn’t make Catholicism wrong it just means you have a crummy RCIA teacher. There are probably thousands of those as we are still recovering from all the progressives who threw out the tried and true methods and never replaced it.
We are now trying to recover this and make it relevant to today.

This is like a math teacher saying that 1+1 doesnt really equal 2, it can equal 3 or 4 that is just as valid an answer, whatever makes you feel good.
That doesn’t change the fact that 1+1=2, it just means you have a crummy math teacher.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Maxply]

Say, here i stand, what’s the holdup or things that you have questions or concerns about, with respect to joining the Church?

I’m just curious. I’m a cradle Catholic, but it all got much clearer to me once I realized mass was a FORMAL public worship rather than a group get-together.

Again, I think it might be the case (but I may well be wrong) that the person in your RCIA is trying to be warm and friendly to a disparate group of individuals coming to the Church for various reasons, for various backgrounds, and so may be trying to not appear harsh or hardline and off-putting. Just 2 cents.

To me, the interesting thing, the stimulating thing, is that the Church doesn’t just take a popular vote to determine its theology! I’m always amazed by denominations that do this kind of thing, always a lot of skullduggery and politicking going on under the covers when this happens.

 

[here_i_stand]

Say, here i stand, what’s the holdup or things that you have questions or concerns about, with respect to joining the Church?

I’m just curious. I’m a cradle Catholic, but it all got much clearer to me once I realized mass was a FORMAL public worship rather than a group get-together.

Again, I think it might be the case (but I may well be wrong) that the person in your RCIA is trying to be warm and friendly to a disparate group of individuals coming to the Church for various reasons, for various backgrounds, and so may be trying to not appear harsh or hardline and off-putting. Just 2 cents.

To me, the interesting thing, the stimulating thing, is that the Church doesn’t just take a popular vote to determine its theology! I’m always amazed by denominations that do this kind of thing, always a lot of skullduggery and politicking going on under the covers when this happens.

I would say it’s just the usual things a lifelong Lutheran would have problems with: Mary; papal infallibility; indulgences … I’ve heard all the arguments both ways on all of these subjects and my 36-year mindset is not easily changed. Add these things to the fact that it would cause huge family rifts (my father is the principal of a Lutheran elementary school and I have several relatives who are pastors / teachers), it’s a struggle for me. Obviously, I would be giving up a lot - which I’m willing to do for the truth - but is not a decision hastily made until I’m sure of what the truth is.

As an orthodox conservative Lutheran church body, we don’t decide things by popular vote, either. We believe in the Real Presence (though not transubstantiation), the sinfulness of homosexuality and abortion, and infant baptism. We are also very liturgical and I was actually surprised when I found out we have the same readings on any given Sunday. I understand the dangers of trying to appear “friendly” (look at some of our other Christian brothers and sisters who - as a denomination - have lost so much by trying to fit in to the social culture of our times). That’s why it bothers me so much to see it happening at RCIA because one of the attractions I have for the Catholic Church is exactly the opposite. In the midst of chaos, the Church seems to stand firm.

I have come a long way - believe me - in the last couple of years in understanding the Catholic faith and my misconceptions of it that I held before. If anyone had told me I would be in RCIA - EVER - I would’ve called them crazy. Intellectually, I’m almost there as far as conversion. But, I still cringe when I see things, for example, on the back of prayer books, etc. saying you can earn so many indulgences by reading this so many times a day. It’s just a mindset I’ve known all of my life.

To make a short story long , that’s where I am on my spiritual journey. Interestingly, I find myself defending Catholicism to more and more people. This is hard to admit when the reason I started studying Catholicism was so I could prove where it went wrong.

 

[jonfan]

I was hoping someone could help me with a problem I’ve been having. I am Lutheran, but am dating a Catholic - something which has led me over the past two years to learn more about the Catholic faith and into a local RCIA program. I have learned much from sources such as this board, EWTN, catholic.com and from reading the early church fathers. I am well-versed in Scripture (although I can’t compare to some of the well-learned people that post here). I started taking RCIA just to learn more and am dismayed by what I’m hearing there. There is such a lack of knowledge about not only the Catholic faith, but about Christianity in general. One of our leaders actually said that confession is not that important and that missing Mass once in awhile isn’t viewed as a big thing anymore (since Vatican II). I know from reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church that this is not true. She also stated that she is glad that a friend of hers - who is going through a divorce - isn’t Catholic so she doesn’t have that “extra burden” of having to obtain an annullment. These views seem to be held by the entire RCIA team. To make a long story short, I am not learning anything and - if anything - feel myself being led away from the Church. The Lutheran church I attend is much more conservative and the pastor is the only one who instructs those wanting to learn more about our faith. Why is that not the case in Catholicism? It seems to do a great disservice to those of us who genuinely want to learn more. I know the people don’t make the church, but how do I handle this?

I would notify the diocese.