RCIA Problems... :(

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Matariel

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Ugh. Where to begin…
Well, I hope all you Catholics are happy that I’m finally going to RCIA, and these last few weeks have been a flurry of events and strange plot-twists in my life (you may have noticed that I haven’t been able to type much on CAF lately.)
At any rate, it all started a bit back when I was having doubts about the Via Media and Branch Theory of Anglican theology. I was a member of the Anglican Catholic Church, a traditional Anglican church with valid holy orders and sacramental understanding. I still haven’t worked up myself enough to inform my priest (Fr. Hart, a very traditionalist Anglican priest, who has two other brothers-- an Orthodox priest and a Roman Catholic priest 🤷 ) but I know I have to some time.
Anyway, my cousin, I’ll call him Treb (nickname) came to Maryland about five months ago, and he and I’re good friends. When he got here, he was an ardently anti-Catholic nominal Presbyterian. But he kept asking questions about my faith (I told him I was becoming Catholic) especially when he saw the crucifix on the wall and the statue of the Blessed Virgin in my room.
Anyway, it was to my utter shock and jubilation when he finally came up to me and said, “how do you become Catholic? I want to be Catholic?” So I explained the whole programme and RCIA and such, and he said that he will come to RCIA when he returns from Cali (he went back).
Anyway, I called the local Catholic church, and, lo and behold, the very first RCIA class was beginning that very week on Wednesday.
Everything was dandy and fine-- or so I thought.
I went to the RCIA class. There were two Lutherans, one ex-JW, and some other non-religious. And a the deacon, who was leading the class.
Anyway, it was ok, but then the deacon began talking of his troubles with God, and how the Church won’t let him marry, since his wife divorced him. I thought that was a little inappropriate for newcomers to the faith, as he sounded so uncertain.
Anyway, he then proceeded to crack a joke. “Y’know, when all those red-robed bishops get to Heaven, with their mitres and staffs, they’re going to be looking and saying, where’s God? And then a woman will come along and say, “Right here.””
:eek:
Code:
 I quickly gushed out, "God is a spirit, so he's genderless." and shot him a frown. An elderly Religious Ed. co-ordinator (Catholic) was also present, and gave him a disapproving look. The Lutherans and ex-JW seemed sincerely befuddled by the whole ordeal.
 Anyway, right off the bat, that made me a little unsettled. I mean, I don't want Treb to go through this, since he is completely new to the Faith and I don't want his conscious marred by poor catachesis.
 At any rate, just today I recieved a call from the Religious Ed. office, and she said the catechetical books are in for our RCIA class. Enthralled (I love theological books) I drove down and picked it up immediately.
 A precursory reading yielded much. First off, I was perturbed because of the incessant harping on "females were ministers in the early Church" and "the early Church did not have a 'priesthood' as we understand it today, only someone who was a 'presider'" blah, blah, blah, blah.... blah! :mad: 
 Then there was the completely heretical implication in the book that Polygenism is an acceptable view of our first Parents.
  And then they said that a teaching is not necessary infallible unless accepted by the Catholic laity as a whole.
  This seemed so wrong to me! :mad:
Anyway, I look at the cover (which looks innocent enough) and it’s Christ Among Us.

Does anyone know if or how I could confront the deacon? Does anyone have any advice? I really need some right now. Does anyone know about this book, Christ Among Us? Is that standard RCIA material???

Help!!! :eek:
 
Ugh. Where to begin…
Well, I hope all you Catholics are happy that I’m finally going to RCIA, and these last few weeks have been a flurry of events and strange plot-twists in my life (you may have noticed that I haven’t been able to type much on CAF lately.)
At any rate, it all started a bit back when I was having doubts about the Via Media and Branch Theory of Anglican theology. I was a member of the Anglican Catholic Church, a traditional Anglican church with valid holy orders and sacramental understanding. I still haven’t worked up myself enough to inform my priest (Fr. Hart, a very traditionalist Anglican priest, who has two other brothers-- an Orthodox priest and a Roman Catholic priest 🤷 ) but I know I have to some time.
Anyway, my cousin, I’ll call him Treb (nickname) came to Maryland about five months ago, and he and I’re good friends. When he got here, he was an ardently anti-Catholic nominal Presbyterian. But he kept asking questions about my faith (I told him I was becoming Catholic) especially when he saw the crucifix on the wall and the statue of the Blessed Virgin in my room.
Anyway, it was to my utter shock and jubilation when he finally came up to me and said, “how do you become Catholic? I want to be Catholic?” So I explained the whole programme and RCIA and such, and he said that he will come to RCIA when he returns from Cali (he went back).
Anyway, I called the local Catholic church, and, lo and behold, the very first RCIA class was beginning that very week on Wednesday.
Everything was dandy and fine-- or so I thought.
I went to the RCIA class. There were two Lutherans, one ex-JW, and some other non-religious. And a the deacon, who was leading the class.
Anyway, it was ok, but then the deacon began talking of his troubles with God, and how the Church won’t let him marry, since his wife divorced him. I thought that was a little inappropriate for newcomers to the faith, as he sounded so uncertain.
Anyway, he then proceeded to crack a joke. “Y’know, when all those red-robed bishops get to Heaven, with their mitres and staffs, they’re going to be looking and saying, where’s God? And then a woman will come along and say, “Right here.””
:eek:
Code:
 I quickly gushed out, "God is a spirit, so he's genderless." and shot him a frown. An elderly Religious Ed. co-ordinator (Catholic) was also present, and gave him a disapproving look. The Lutherans and ex-JW seemed sincerely befuddled by the whole ordeal.
 Anyway, right off the bat, that made me a little unsettled. I mean, I don't want Treb to go through this, since he is completely new to the Faith and I don't want his conscious marred by poor catachesis.
 At any rate, just today I recieved a call from the Religious Ed. office, and she said the catechetical books are in for our RCIA class. Enthralled (I love theological books) I drove down and picked it up immediately.
 A precursory reading yielded much. First off, I was perturbed because of the incessant harping on "females were ministers in the early Church" and "the early Church did not have a 'priesthood' as we understand it today, only someone who was a 'presider'" blah, blah, blah, blah.... blah! :mad: 
 Then there was the completely heretical implication in the book that Polygenism is an acceptable view of our first Parents.
  And then they said that a teaching is not necessary infallible unless accepted by the Catholic laity as a whole.
  This seemed so wrong to me! :mad:
Anyway, I look at the cover (which looks innocent enough) and it’s Christ Among Us.

Does anyone know if or how I could confront the deacon? Does anyone have any advice? I really need some right now. Does anyone know about this book, Christ Among Us? Is that standard RCIA material???

Help!!! :eek:
Get you and him this little Book:

angelfire.com/ca3/rafaelmarie/ThePieta/athepieta.html
catholicfreeshipping.com/Products/cfs_gensym-154.html
 
I suggest talking with the priest. If those teachings are what is taught by that church in paticular, then look for another parish. Also, read your bible. I know there are many verses that can be used against the deacons stance. There needs to be a firm foundation from the bible, which looks like it isn’t being taught. 😦
 
Hello,

If there are other catechists in the class, then I would try approaching them and explaining some of the concerns you have. If the catechists are unapproachable or unresponsive to your concerns, I would then go to the priest and re-iterate what you said above. If the priest is unapproachable or unresponsive to your concerns, then try to find a new parish. If there’s no other local parish, then pray that the grace of God might illumine this deacon…and contact your bishop so that he is aware of what is going on for future reference.
 
Christ Among Us? Is that standard RCIA material???

Help!!! :eek:
the book is forbidden here and was banned at one time
you cannot do RCIA in this parish. period.
somebody has to stop this deacon, don’t know if that burden should be placed on an innocent RCIA candidate

for lay witness protocol on how to confront such things in your parish click on that topic at Catholics United for the Faith, cuf.org, but you and certainly your friend should not have to go through this. Call and ask for an appointment with the pastor, identify yourself as an RCIA candidate with grave concerns. lay them out for him. if heads do not roll and he does not provide better instruction by the following week, ask him for a referral to a parish with an orthodox program.

of course if you are, as I have reason to believe, a bit better catechized than the deacon, and feel like having a little fun with him, you can play “innocent objector” the entire time.
but deacon, the CCC says right here in section X that there is indeed such thing as original sin, the virgin birth, the resurrection really happened etc. etc. I agree that the whole experience could be spiritually dangerous, not to mention completely confusing to to the other poor participants, and should be stopped, and I bet you are just the one to do it.

Welcome home, you will get there, forgive us our trespasses in erecting barriers for you along the way
 
Matariel;4421722Does anyone know about this book said:
? Is that standard RCIA material???

Help!!! :eek:
Oh, matariel,

I am so sorry about what you’re going through.
This is why I left the Catholic Church 25 yrs ago.

A quick search on google for “Christ Among Us” brought up several hits, among which,
“just terrible” “heresy” and “Vatican to withdraw imprimatur”
on just the first page.
It doesn’t look like it would be hard for you to convince your priest to select a different teaching text for the NEXT RCIA.

google.com/search?q=%22christ+among+us%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
 
Does anyone know about this book, Christ Among Us? Is that standard RCIA material???

Help!!! :eek:
I can’t speak to the verifiability of this source,
but it does beg for some follow-up research to find out if it’s true.
The leading text is a book called “Christ Among Us” by Anthony Wilhelm. Bluntly put, it’s terrible. This isn’t just my opinion.** It had its imprimatur removed in 1984 because it is “inconsistent with the doctrine of the Church” and for “not being suitable as a catechetical text”. It was written by an ex-priest, a man who walked out on his vows.**
**
Because of the lack of an imprimatur, no parish may use “Christ Among Us” to teach RCIA (Canon 827). **The book may not be “displayed, sold, or given away in churches”. It’s absolutely illicit to use this book to teach RCIA, or even to use church funds to buy the book.

oloph.blogspot.com/2006/11/christ-among-us-and-rcia.html
 
when i started RCIA, the woman teaching the class stated “women aren’t allowed to be priests YET, but we are making good progress.” funny how i was the only man in the class. needless to say, i found another parish that was truly in-line with the authentic teaching of our church. i would suggest you do the same. trying to change the deacon’s mind, imho, would be an exercise in futility. praying for the deacon and that parish, however, would be a great thing to do.
 
This thread just really makes me sad.
😦
:gopray2:

Is it really futile to try to convert from within the Church?
 
This thread just really makes me sad.

Is it really futile to try to convert from within the Church?
no it is not futile
OP gave the example of one parish, where one person is off the rails.
this is a worldwide universal Church
be prepared, we are all sinners, we vary only the the variety of our sins. If you are looking for a church full of perfect people, keep moving, the Catholic Church is not it. Yet we are surrounded by and supported by saints, most in heaven, some here on earth. You will encounter them.

Those teaching badly are teaching what they themselves received. the scandal falls on the heads of those teachers, may God have mercy on their souls (I personally have none).

for every parish with a questionable program or teacher, there are dozens more where you will find solid teaching, and more important, solid example of CAtholic living.

To use the failings of fallible human beings as an excuse to abandon the search for Truth is a shabby and damaging spiritual exercise.
 
…for lay witness protocol on how to confront such things in your parish click on that topic at Catholics United for the Faith, cuf.org, but you and certainly your friend should not have to go through this. Call and ask for an appointment with the pastor, identify yourself as an RCIA candidate with grave concerns. lay them out for him. if heads do not roll and he does not provide better instruction by the following week, ask him for a referral to a parish with an orthodox program.
Thanks, P-Annie, I will check it out. I’ve noticed that the front of my book has no* Imprimatur*. I will approach the deacon first, and then see what happens. I’ll check back in with what happened here too.
…of course if you are, as I have reason to believe, a bit better catechized than the deacon, and feel like having a little fun with him, you can play “innocent objector” the entire time.
I would really love to do that, and that’s what I intend to do-- If he doesn’t listen to my plea about it’s lack of imprimatur.

I also do not want to look for another parish, because I feel I have a moral responsilility to ensure that the Lutherans and ex-JW and non-religious in the class are not given heresy. I don’t want them to get Anthony Wilhem’s version of what the Church teaches, and I want to ensure that they get the real deal.

I already sympathize for them, since they were unsettled about the deacon’s God-Goddess diatribes. 😦
 
Hi

I just want to say “God Bless You” :heaven: :blessyou: :aok:

I will be Praying for you, please do check back in with us and let us know how you are doing. Obviously we all support you and pray for the best.

Also - thank-you for realizing that the Church is not always best represented by it’s members - authorized at times or not.

Peace and Blessings

John
 
Hi

I just want to say “God Bless You” :heaven: :blessyou: :aok:

I will be Praying for you, please do check back in with us and let us know how you are doing. Obviously we all support you and pray for the best.

Also - thank-you for realizing that the Church is not always best represented by it’s members - authorized at times or not.

Peace and Blessings

John
Thanks a tonne!

I just hope when Treb goes through with it, he doesn’t get this kind of heretical tripe. I don’t want to overshadow him, but I want to be there in whatever RCIA class he ends up in, so that he doesn’t get the heretical tripe.

To tell you the truth though, so far this RCIA experience is deplorable.

But Monday, I’m going to go to the Religious Ed. Office and tell the kindly lady there (who seems to be orthodox) about Anthony Wilhelm and how his book was called “doctrinally incorrect” and “not suitable for catechetical teaching” by Pope Benedict (then Card. Ratzinger) and had its imprimatur removed.

I just hope things get over well.

I don’t want a confrontation where the resulting casualties are the ex-JW, Lutherans, and other converts. :eek:
 
Inform your priest and write to your Bishop immediately. Something has to be done to prevent this man from teaching the class.
 
please talk to the priest if the kindly old lady (that would be me) does not give a proper response. He may actually have no idea what is being taught. I found all kinds of weird stuff in the office when I came labelled “RCIA” and assumed they were using it, so I talked to the priest and he threw the junk out personally. turns out it was just stuff that had been donated and thrust into storage. We have had volunteers in the past who are very active in various ministries, but when they start teaching, you get a chance to see how unorthodox are their views and you gently (but firmly) boot them out.
 
Get out…find an orthodox parish and take the rest of the RCIA class with you.

Glad
 
I wouldn’t get out just yet. I would talk to the priest first. You’d be amazed how well the people working under him can keep him in the dark. If after talking to priest it is clear that priest is pretty much on board with the deacon’s errors, get out, write a letter to the bishop even if nothing comes of it (paper trails).

Sigh. Another RCIA horror-story to add to the collection. :crying:

P.S. Yeah, what GladCatholic said, if you do need to get out, take as many with you as you can.
 
Inform your priest and write to your Bishop immediately. Something has to be done to prevent this man from teaching the class.
Dempsey, do you think I should really do this before even inquiring about the issue? I like at least given one second chance, and confronting the issue head-on-- with the kindly Religious Ed. Lady.
 
Get out…find an orthodox parish and take the rest of the RCIA class with you.

Glad
I’m afraid that’s impossible, since most of the converts are from the Island, so they already have to drive 30 minutes to get there, and some have ties with the good Catholics of that church. Another obstacle, which I forgot to mention, is that the Lutherans wanted to become Catholic because “their service is like our service, and there is no Lutheran church around and we want to recieve the sacraments” (but Lutheran “sacraments” are null and void) and “we’re not on a doctrinal level, we just want to be a part of a good, loving church”. But you have to be completely in line with Catholic teaching to be a Catholic. :eek:
 
Your best course of action is to see the Pastor and take a copy of the book with you so that he knows which book you’re speaking of. There are many books with similar names and the title sounds so innocent that the Pastor may not even remember it.

In our parish we use the simplified version of the CCC, the scriptures and a smaller book called What Every Catholic Should Know. That combination, along with some good lectures, discussions, videos and guest speakers make for a very goo RCIA and RCIT programs. You may want to recommend those books. If they don’t want to make the investment, you may want to purchase them for your use.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
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